Is this just another guitar site? (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
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Message

Guest -> Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 14:43:29)

Don't get me wrong, I love Flamenco guitar and like a lot of people I am desparate to learn new techniques and any advice on improving my playing. But does anyone here look at the dancing? or take in the singing? Just today I was watching a video of some 'unknowns', the dancing was just fantastic, almost unbelievable. The dancer unaccompanied except for a few ole's and a rock steady beat for the cojon, with toe,heel and back of heel hammered out a buleria over serveral minutes, fantastic!! The words/ lyrics of these old Flamenco songs are just so beautiful, sung from the heart, with every ounce emotion the singer can muster. Guitarists, you are well down the in the pecking order. Go watch a dance class and see what effort these girls and guys put in just to learn a few steps.



Ron.M -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 15:02:19)

quote:

Go watch a dance class and see what effort these girls and guys put in just to learn a few steps.


A number of guitarists here play for dance classes and some for Flamenco companies featuring both cante and baile so I think they already have a good idea!

Ron

PS: A "cojon" is a single testicle ...a cajon is a box drum..[:D]



Mark2 -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 16:19:59)

I agree about the pecking order part, but really think that at least on an entry level, it's much easier to learn the dance than the guitar accompaniment. I've seen dance students who, after a year or two of training are able to get through sevllianas, fandangos, some solea, some alegrias, bulerias etc. Also, dancers, by memorizing a series of steps, can pull off even difficult contra steps without fully grasping the underlying compas. They can particpate in juergas by doing palmas, get up and do a few steps in bulerias, and really be part of the whole deal. Guitarists have no such luck. They have to be versed in the guitar, the dance, and the cante in order to play in that same situation. I'm not implying that professional dancers don't work as hard as the guitarists. The writer Pohren wrote that the guitarist was the hardest working, but least paid performer in flamenco. He wrote that maybe 30-40 yeras ago , before the invention of the guitar led flamenco group ala PdL, VA, etc. I wonder how much economics contribute to today's emphasis on this format.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 16:26:03)

Great, another genius to inform the guitarists of their low status.



Florian -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 16:30:21)

[:D]

To answer your question Guest yes many many if not every guitarists here look at the dancing and the cante :-)

But this sounds like the first time you have [;)]



sorin popovici -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 16:41:23)

I think it's in a way normal that flamenco guitar is more popular than baile and cante.
U have to have a little experience to taste the baile and the cante,probably...sometimes
u have to know spanish also to fully apreciate .
I dont understand the lyrics yet ...and when I like cante I think I like it for the ligados
that the singer does .I have to know some spanish to fully understand it,if there's
poetry there or not.

As far as baile I also expect it to be music like a drum solo .I am not hooked up on things like guajira baile...I tend to think that probably ballet is a little more complicated,but I hope
somebody will take me to the right path and show me that I'm wrong .

I apreciate though that flamenco is an art which has it in a way all and that probably
sticking to it will open my mind a little.
Anyway correct me ...I only want to see the path [:@]



XXX -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 17:12:16)

Guest, what was that supposed to be?

If your aim was to make guitarrist look more for dance and baile it is not very intelligent to believe that it will help to say how inferior the guitar is [8|]

Those people start to make me really angry [:@]

Remove the guitar from a flamenco group and watch how many concerts they will have in Europe for example !!!



koella -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 21:31:31)

Wait a minute guys. Maybe this is Paco or Nunez telling us anonimously we shouldn't talk so much about technique and stuff but get more into dancing and singing.
Might be also a frustrated dancer.



Guest -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 21:41:00)

Guest no1 you should make then a baile forum if you are so into it. I have seen cante and baile, and guitar is thousend years ahead of them in expression...so much that it can be alone with no need of cante or baile...



gerundino63 -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 21:49:51)

Dear Guest,

We are with a lot of guitarists here, also a few dancers visit here, they enlighten us ( if I may speak for all of us) with their knowledge and point of fiews.
We listen a lot to cante, and see and accompany as much as possible dancing.
Ofcourse we are a little guitar minded, because that is what we love to do the most.
I am sure, if you dance or sing, that that is where you are focused on.

So I invite you, become a member, discuss with us, and share your point of few with us.

Peter



Kate -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 19 2005 22:29:25)

Well said. There's a lot of guitarists here but not all of us. Lets talk about cante [;)] Its as easy as starting a thread as you see. Everyone is very responsive. Join up and share.

Kate



duende -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 4:41:34)

some people lives where cante or baile is not avalible...it´s not like we have a choise



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 20 2005 5:51:50)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 1 2006 23:06:03



Florian -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 5:59:33)

Damn that is well said Domenic, well arent you a a litlle intelect :-)


thats so well said and well articulated, i am starting to almost think its a litlle poofy :-)

remember what i told you once "only poofs spell" here in Angle park we keeping it real [:D]


quote:

"only poofs spell"

to everyone else its just a litlle ongoing joke i have runing with domenic dont take offence



Guest -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 6:11:32)

sorry man i got a little carried away, you didnt really think that sounded poofy did you? i can change it!![:D][:D][:D]



Florian -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 6:16:06)

il let it slide this time but beware of words containing more than 8 letters [:D]



Guest -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 6:18:15)

oh yeah, i nearly forgot!



duende -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 6:44:07)

heres a word for ya FLO

pusillanimous

thats like 13 letters!! and who would use it?



Florian -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 6:46:08)

POOFS [:D]



duende -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 9:27:49)

[:D]



duende -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 12:13:43)

pusillanimous \pyoo-suh-LAN-uh-muhs\, adjective:
Lacking in courage and resolution; contemptibly fearful; cowardly.



Francisco -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 12:53:07)

Here's another word, according to some to be the longest in the world:

The the gentle-Wo/Man's floccinaucinihilipilification of guitarist reminded them of the synergistic relationship between the different facets of a complex art. [8|]
I think I picked that word up here somewhere one night.

But yea, if dancing's where it's at for ya, than go for it. Just do it the best that you can, and your reward will equal your commitment.

Dancing in public is not my thing - I don't gel well with that much attention. So, solo guitar probably out too. Who knows. I tend to be my own worst critic.

I started to say something about the focus here tending towards the guitar, and how a bailor(a) might not gain much from that, but on second thought, could you not use some of the uploaded files to some degree? To practice a certain routine? I dunno, I'm no dancer, and to some, barely a guitarist. I digress.

So, like some others here have said, register so we'll know what to call you. Stick around, it's a cool site, with some equally cool people.



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 16:02:26)

Poofy, huh? Well, not that there's anything wrong with that.



Florian -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 20 2005 16:13:43)

No, not at all, peoples sexual preference is theyr own bussines, it just upsets me when they spell and articulate so well.


When i came to this country i had my choice, "do i learn the language good ?"or do i just learn a litlle and then make everyone else whos better than me at it feel bad for beeing so articulate ?

I made my choice[8|]

Give me 2 months with TOmatito, il convince him that his buleria is so bad, that all that perfect playing is so yesterday, that people this days like to hear imperfections, its more human.
yep, 2 months and Tomatito will stride to sound like me [:D]

if you cant beat em, make what they do out of style [8|]



Guest -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 23 2005 14:28:11)

This is Sendero. I logged in as a guest as I can't remember my password.
Here we have someone than has tried and failed playing flamenco guitar and apparently has no knowledge about flamenco. The reference to the Bulerias is one sign of another parrot. These internet experts hear a bulerias and think we are impressed by their mention of it. How about a farrucas, my dear expert guest? Ever heard the word? Understand the rhythm so you can expertly clap your hands? How about an alegrias? Ok, so the guitarist is low on the order ... to who? You?

Ok, parrot guest can you enlighten us all on the mother of flamenco song forms, soleares? Now look at the name of this forum ... flamenco guitar song and dance.....
now click on this link and tell me Diego del Gastor is low on the pecking order.

http://www.gypsyflamenco.com/Diegovideo.html

Now will you identfy yourself and produce some cerdiantials.......In my 35 years playing flamenco guitar, clapping to the rhythms and feeling the lonely and sorrow expressed by a heart played soleares or my favorite the alegrias with its light and rhythmic Jota, a simple sevillanas, a rumba and the bulerias which by your mention reduces guitarist to an inferior standing. Your mention of the bulerias was well picked as you captured its "mockery" or as a song form meant as a joke..... You mock us, dear poster and I respectfully reply with a fandango ... can you dance to that?



flyeogh -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 23 2005 15:43:18)

Well said Sendero but I really wouldn't waste your breath on anonymous postings. Better to post a track of you playing Farrucas. I.m beavering away on it over Xmas and I could do with all the help I can get

Happy Christmas to all those under-rated guitarists[:D][:D][:D] - and the dancers and singers as well[:)]



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 23 2005 17:25:42)

Well, the guy basically seemed to be a troll, just a post looking to start a fight. But he mentioned how much effort dancers have to put into getting a few steps--which sounds to me like he went to a beginning class. My friend Lydia Torrea, who was a well-known professional dancer--she danced in Jose Greco's group while a young Paco was in the group--told me she hardly ever practiced more than an hour or two a day.



Ricardo -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Dec. 23 2005 21:11:12)

No doubt it is challenging to learn any aspect of flamenco, especially being born out of the culture. But this "pecking order" is silly. Ask any guitarist to learn some steps and arm movements por bulerias in a dance class. Maybe they won't look like Manuela Carrasco, but they could probably move around and do stomping in compas. Same for a flamenco singer. Now ask the guitarist to sing some cante. Maybe they don't have the voice, but they could at least hum the melody, again, in compas. A lot of dancer teachers sing or hum the cante melody in their classes too.

Now ask the singer or dancer (having never played) to take the guitar and strum two chords por bulerias, in compas and at tempo. Forget it.

True some singers and dancers have studied guitar and play quite well, but you never hear them putting the guitarist down.



Ryan002 -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Jan. 18 2006 18:24:43)

I can never do Baile.

Why? Well simply because when I walk into a dance studio people are likely to start calling for Cpt. Ahab because Moby Di ck just swam in. Honestly, FAT people like me have no hope of that particular aspect of flamenco. On the plus side, I'm told people of my size make good singers. I guess there's all that space and all those layers for the sound to vibrate in.

(And don't even talk to me about diets. Elephants can eat grass and they'll still be fat!)



Cloth Ears -> RE: Is this just another guitar site? (Jan. 18 2006 19:10:04)

"Pecking order"...that statement leads me to believe that you are psychotic, Guest. Dancer's do not have a monopoly on flamenco, all are welcome to enjoy it.

Go troll somewhere else.



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