Too thin bracing? (Full Version)

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bernd -> Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 17:55:18)

A friend is making me a negra. His bracing bars normally are 4 mm high. In order to get more percussion I´ve ordered them with 3 mm. There´s also no bridge plate inside of the top. Now I´ve become a little bit worried about this construction might be too weak or instable. What do the luthiers say?



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 18:07:33)

It depends on how he works the soundboard and how he shapes the braces. You cannot seperate things like that, so I´m sorry, there´s no direct easy to understand guideline or answer to your questions. 3mm can be to much and 4mm can be to little.
In general, I will advice that you leave things like thickness of braces to the Luthier. He´s the cook and he should know how to blend the ingredients. Its his meal.

So what made you think that the guitar would be more percussive going from 4 to 3mm?



jshelton5040 -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 18:08:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bernd

A friend is making me a negra. His bracing bars normally are 4 mm high. In order to get more percussion I´ve ordered them with 3 mm. There´s also no bridge plate inside of the top. Now I´ve become a little bit worried about this construction might be too weak or instable. What do the luthiers say?

Depends on the thickness of the top, number and location of the braces, amount of arch in the top and scale of the guitar. 3mm doesn't seem light to me depending on the width. I wouldn't have left out the bridge plate though.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 18:09:40)

John, we cross posted. Basically we agree and I also agree with your point on the bridge plate. (or bridge patch)



Erik van Goch -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 19:39:19)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

3mm can be to much and 4mm can be to little.

:-)



rojarosguitar -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 20:12:08)

I think the question itself shows that you shouldn't order isolated parameters from your luthier.

To take up the picture of Anders Eliason, you're well entitled to ask for a more percussive sound or whatever you want sound wise (like you would order your steak medium), and leave it to knowledgeable luthier to make the right choices to achieve that.

Just the issue of braces: you can achieve the same stiffness with taller and narrower or lower and wider braces, as well as through choosing different woods and also cross section profiles, and each choice will have different implications for the sound ...

The top of a guitar is a rather complex thing and it's the skill of the luthier to have experience and intuition what and how to do.



bernd -> RE: Too thin bracing? (Apr. 27 2014 21:17:06)

Thank you very much for your replies!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
So what made you think that the guitar would be more percussive going from 4 to 3mm?

6 years ago he made my Fernando Sánchez guitars. There were one blanca and a negra that both were good. He also made some classical student guitars. At one of the classicals we made an experiment were I ordered one instrument with 1.5 mm less than the original measure. Also I ordered the notch of the bridge bone 1 mm lower. This guitar had a higher volume and a big amout of percussion.

3 years ago he changed his bracing system and uses lower notches for his flamcas as well. I couldn´t check his new design. As I called him to ask for more percussion he agreed that my idea would have this effect. He also told me that it is no problem to matter of stability. So my idea of posting this thread was to get a 2nd opinion that could let me sleep quietly. So it could be a kind of Russian roulette.

I´ll get the guitar next month and feel strained like a bow [:D]



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Too thin bracing? (May 1 2014 2:36:04)

quote:

I think the question itself shows that you shouldn't order isolated parameters from your luthier.


I love your reply. It can be maddening to try to answer potential customers who only care about what bracing layout I might use or what kind of spruce.



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