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Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Playing: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=1
- - Tabs: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=6
- - - [Deleted]: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=25306



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Guest -> [Deleted] (Nov. 30 2005 18:17:25)

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XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 30 2005 18:51:15)

They are skilled and real flamencos. Wished they would do more Bulerias, Soleares and so on...
Dont have tabs either, but there should be some stuff on the regular TAB sites, no?



Escribano -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 30 2005 19:23:26)

quote:

Wished they would do more Bulerias, Soleares and so on...


They are French Catalans, so can they do anything other than the rumba, I wonder?



XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 30 2005 19:41:39)

This is the first Buleria ive EVER heard. At that time i didnt even know that it was a buleria...

here

Regarding Rumba they are very versatile, at least techniquewise.

Ps: didnt get your "french catalan" point...



Escribano -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 30 2005 20:57:02)

quote:

didnt get your "french catalan" point


They are from the South of France - the Camargue - which is considered to be part of Catalunya and they sing in part French, part Catalan.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 1 2005 14:29:41)

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XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 1 2005 18:25:16)

Escribano, shame on you [:D]

Serious dude, i think your opinion of the kings is far too bad, than is must. Yes they play almost exclusively rumbas, but they can also play better stuff, meanwhile their rumbas are not bad either!
I like the voices sometimes also, and their picado, ill mention it again and again, is my favorite regarding the tone.

Lionel, try this one.

It has also the tabbing, but you want also learn the chord names, at least the basic ones (major/minor + 7s...) otherwise you will get probs. In fact here are also programs like Guitar Alchemist FREE, which show you all chords and scales, but its very annoying to look up every chord, so learn at least the basics!

And what about rumba? I thought, as i read, rumba would come from Cuba?



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 1 2005 18:56:16)

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XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 1 2005 19:05:22)

Oh yes of course, youre completely right. I totally forgot the slavery [:'(]

To the TAB: hm... you mean the solo guitar right? I thought it was easy to hear out 99% is played very slow. That might be also the reason why you have problems to find his notes.
So my advice try to figure it out on yourself. If it doesnt work find something different/easier to play.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 1 2005 21:20:06)

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Escribano -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 9:49:32)

quote:

Escribano, shame on you Serious dude, i think your opinion of the kings is far too bad


Hang on, I wasn't criticising them, I enjoy them. I lived in the South of France, hung out on the coast and listened to the GKs a lot. I eventually saw them at the Wolf Trap in Virginia and had a very enjoyable evening.

My understanding was that the "gitane" dialect is a mix of French, Spanish and Catalan but I may be mistaken.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 2 2005 10:24:46)

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flyeogh -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 10:58:27)

quote:

how was your experience


just to add to the discussion I saw the GKs many years ago in Windsor Great Park near London. I'd been invited to my one and only polo match. As far as I could tell I was only there to tread down the divets in between chuckers. A sport for the rich I think. It was followed by the open air concert terminating with fireworks. For some reason the audience didn't number more than 1000 (if memory serves me well). The atmosphere was great.

The overrididing memory was the fullness of the sound. The GKs in glitter suits were backed by other musicians hidden in the shadows. No idea how many guitars but the effect in the night air was incredible. But the concert was short, I remember people commenting. That said they had to end when the fireworks did so perhaps it was not their fault.

As for the language of the gitanos in S france I found they spoke any language you wanted when I tried to buy something[:D]



XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 11:34:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shroomy726
The only played for about 2 hours ...


2 hours is too less for you?

Agree on volare, its played too too much... [:@]



Ricardo -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 14:13:19)

Manitas is the father of half the Gypsy Kings, jose reyes the father of the other half. A while back we had a discussion on Manitas. Here's what I said:
quote:

A lot of flamencos and flamenco aficionados underestimate the rumba. The french gypsies like Manitas that specialized in it, are really great at it, especially guitarwise. There are details there that are easily overlooked by flamencos who spend more time on 12 count rhythms or tangos. But Manitas did choose to record bulerias, which he did not truely understand or feel. Why?

I have had the opportunity to jam w/ the Gypsy Kings a few times. It was great. They can do palmas por bulerias, and sing fandangos naturales and tangos/tanguillo ala Camaron. They don't know how to sing the main forms of flamenco, but they are BIG aficionados. They can "fake" it for fun. Tonino is the only one who IS a flamenco, and can play ALL the forms well. We jammed on bulerias, his style is PDL from the 70's. He has equal fun playing both bulerias and rumba, and so do I. Playing rumba is not just about making money, and it is not "South American", it is very Spanish. At least the rumba we are talking about.

I don't think less of Manitas and the Kings because they play lots of rumba, they are true masters of it. In Jerez they do bulerias all day and night. In the French Gypsy culture it is rumba. They do what they do, and at least they are big aficionados of flamenco, just like me. Not everyone inspired by Paco de Lucia can play as good as him, and learn that much being born outside of Spain.

The singers in the Kings don't know how to sing bulerias, that is for sure. But honestly, I don't understand why. They are so good at rumba/tangos, but that is all they like to sing, but it would not be hard for them if they WANTED to learn it. But even in Spain, not every singer is required to master ALL the palos. Anyway, I consider it a great honor to have jammed w/ them.

Ricardo


Also to those aficionados who say Gypsy Kings are not flamenco AT ALL, I challenge them to listen to the song Serana and tell us what traditional cante they are singing.



XXX -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 15:55:25)

Good information you got there.
It seems i have a little lack of knowledge, regarding rumba and where it comes from. I only can say what i read in books etc.
Can you point some examples out what makes one rumba spanish and another cuban?
I would be interested.

Thx. Great aficioncandonism here [:)]



Ricardo -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 2 2005 19:37:53)

Hi, go to a salsa club and ask the DJ to put on Cuban Rumba. Then ask him for Gypsy Kings. Not related at all. The "rumba" accent pattern X--x--x-, x--x--x- etc, probably orginates in Africa. But you can find that accent pattern in all types of music with 2 beats. A common 4 beat pattern, which is different, would be x--x--x--x--x---, etc. So some African beats made it to Cuba and other latin american countries. Hence Afro-Cuban or Afro-Latin rhythms. But once you get into that music, you have to learn about the clave. That is what people feel and dance to.

I don't really know all the claves but here is Son clave:X--X--X---X-X--- and the other feeling of the same accent pattern: --X-X---X--X--X-

The "rumba Clave" is X--X---X--X-X---, only one accent is different, but it means everything. The other feel of the same pattern: --X-X---X--X---X

Notice both claves are 5 accents over 16 notes. It is felt as 16th notes in 4 time (4 beats with 5 synchopated accents against the beat). In other words, the latin Rumba clave is based on 4 beat accent pattern. Here again is the "flamenco Rumba" clave: X--X--X-, which is 3 accents over 8 notes. It is a 2 beat rhythm. Subtle but very important difference.

One could go through and show the same similarities and differences between the Argentine tango and Tango flamenco. In the end it is really about the specifics of guitar strumming, rhythmic feel, singing style etc. Rumba, Guajira, Tango, mean very different things depending where in the world you are. They are just labels. You can't start pounding out some hardcore Carmague Rumba on your flamenco guitar in an Afro-Cuban band, without getting some funny looks! [:D]

Ricardo



musicalgrant -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Dec. 3 2005 1:57:52)

Hi lionel

I saw your plea for gypsy king tabs and i came up with thisGypsy kings tab

hope it helps

Email me if u need further assistance

Grant



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 3 2005 3:30:27)

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Stoney -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 23 2009 8:43:35)

I love these kinds of threads so I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

If you want really good Rumba Flamenca with a little Flamenco Puro thrown in I highly recommend the Gypsy Kings 2nd and 3rd CDs.

I have heard rumours but can't confirm that after the success of their first album they got into some kind of beef with their record company so their next two productions were originally released with the name spelt Gipsy Kings. These two recordings are very informal, you can hear the guys talking between songs and yelling Ole! during intros. There are some nice long instrumentals including a Solea that seems spot on to me.

On the other hand, they haven't released anything I'm even remotely interested in in a long time. Reguritated and Recycled Rumbas.

I saw them live well after their best peak years and I was very disapointed. God, they even played a Paso Doble. (insert puking sound here)

Someone gave me Toninos solo album and aside from a passable bulerias it was more of the same.

There is (or maybe was) a VHS concert (don't know if it was ever available on DVD )which was from their heyday and it was great. (If you have it, keep your eye on the audience - I thinki it was recorded a the Hollywood bowl and you can catch Sylvester Stallone in the fron row, getting down)

Again, just like Ottmar, they have introduced tons of folks to the world of Flamenco so some Kudos are deserved.

Stoney



Ricardo -> RE: Gipsy Kings anyone? (Nov. 25 2009 6:59:17)

The first version of the group was brought together and managed by this Algerian guy named Chico, who also played rhythm guitar and counted his money. I think he is married to a sister of the gipsy kings. So they got mad at him for some reason, didn't need him in the group obviously, so they kicked him out, and do this day don't talk to him.

So he formed Chico and the Gipsies to compete with them with some of the best Rumberos in their same town, Arles...but never really achieved the same success, but had some cool rumbas. You can check them on youtube too I guess.



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