estebanana -> RE: volume of a guitar (Feb. 15 2014 1:31:42)
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Actually I agree with Tom, you copy until you pull your own style out of the work of the past masters. We are all standing on the shoulders of giants and to not recognize that is silly. The basic Torres guitar is the root of all this and we are all merely building a variant on that instrument. There's nothing terribly original about Spanish guitar making, each maker brings something personal to the method because we are all individuals; if you think your ideas are original it usually means you don't have a tight grasp on the history of the building methods, or use "original designs" as part of your sales concept. It is no different to claim original designs as a selling point just as those who follow a master maker use that as a sales point. At the end of the day everyones guitar making work is a pastiche of the hard core traditional mannerisms with personal stylistic flourishes added on top. Each maker decides which part of that mix of the tradition and your own touches you can best sell. It's all about naming which parts you can sell so I don't buy any arguments about who is doing more valid work based on claims of "originality" over "tradition". If you want to be "original" these days learn to write computer code and be a genius at it. Good luck with being original in this world. "There's nothing new under the sun"...Bible quote. I would also challenge the idea that Americans are copyists while Spanish makers are not. Moorish design elements constitute yet another of the colors one can pick up off the pastiche palette, and I would agree with Anders that the "Moorish" themes and motifs in guitar making are modern style mannerisms introduced to emphasize Spain's history and that flamenco has a partial Arabic influence. However the Moorish elements in headstocks and rosettes, etc. are more like 'Orientalisms'- fetishized or fantasized references to Spain's past which don't have any bearing on the actual development of the modern guitar. ( See 'Edward Said' for more on the concept of Orientalism as a cultural romantic notion) Two examples of design motifs that do not fit the Mooorish profiles are Torres' head stocks and rosette tiles. I attended a demonstration lecture given by R.E. Brune' in which he spoke about the Torres head stock and showed that it was derived from the shapes and patterns of Andalusian Christian grave stones. The three hills motif of Torres head stock is a direct reference to the three hills at Calvary where Christ was crucified. It is in no way shape or format Moorish. The "Moorish influence" that people speak of is a romantic overlay of Arabic design fragments introduced later in the 20th century to create a sales talking point to connect flamenco guitars with Arabic romance and picaresque stories. Think more of tourists going to see the Alhambra and wanting buy a momento of the visit. You see even the label in Manuel de la Chica's guitars want to make an Arabic reference. Arabic influence in guitar design is an artificial construct introduced later after the modern format was well established. And there is nothing wrong with that, but lets understand the way Arabic influence is used in guitar making to create an "Oriental mystique". If one were to take a long view survey of the fragments of Arab motifs in guitars you see it creeps in most after the 1920's and 30's- and most significantly it is not created by using actual Arabic geometric methods, it is just drawn to look "Araby" and had nothing to do with Moorish design practice and proportional relationships. The tiles of rosettes are not Moorish in origin either, they reach farther back into time and are truly motifs and working methods that come from Roman mosiac art from the Betica period when Romans occupied Andalucia. The rosettes tiles and motifs from the makers who Torres _copied_ before he forged his own style are clearly of non Arabic origin because the geometry, and the resulting shapes derived from the use of that style of geometry create patters which do not generally match the motifs of the rosettes of Torres' precursors. A visit to the library to check out books on Roman mosaic work, or better yet to a museum which has a collection of Roman mosiac dating from the Betica time sequence would clearly show in the borders, fields and images of Roman mosiac work many of the same motifs present in Torres and pre Torres Spanish inlay work. Furthermore, the same Roman mosaic work motifs are known through history of Spanish furniture and decorative arts and design and express in almost all cases either a Roman or Northern Christian influenced flavor. I also maintain that aside from true historical buildings in Andalucia that are Arabic in origin or post arabic architecture from transitional times from Islamic rule to full Christian rule, precious little in Andalucian design is truly created using Arab geometric concepts, least of all guitars. The modern guitar as is was developed in Spain was largely a result of Roman and Christian philosophy and geometric principles that are classically derived. The geometry is more Greek than Moorish, each society cultivated different sensibilities in the way they used math to create design. If we are going to throw around religion and who copies from whom, lets think deeper and substantiate our claims with reasoned out historical examples and not just throw religious mud balls. And I'm fine with anyone contesting my ideas, but you better have a historical and iconographical set of references to counter argue your point. If not then you're not digging deep enough. When many of you argue I get the feeling you don't know what you are talking about or are too lazy or angry to provide actual evidence to support your thesis. For those of who find English challenging, I feel for you, but you'll have to get help in the form of a dictionary or simply ask someone to explain the concepts you do not understand. I'm happy to oblige, or help. I'm also tired of hearing about someone's level of language skills as an excuse for being nasty and disruptive. _________________ So loud guitars~ My thought was that the guys who played for Carmen Amaya needed loud double tops with carbon graphite braces- and the guitarists of today need copies of Santos guitars, because Santos made some of the loudest guitars ever and it would save you guys from struggling with buying all those microphones. The real answer is a time machine. - ______ Via con basura amigos !
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