should my first build be a Torres? (Full Version)

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captainslow -> should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 15 2013 13:41:50)

Hi, I am new to playing flamenco, and have decided to attempt to build my own Flamenco guitar too. (Im playing with a Yamaha CGX171SCF Flamenco at the moment.)

I have bought the Roy Courtnall Making Master Guitars book, and am unsure which model from the attached plans, I should attempt first? Or are there any other plans eleswhere I could look at?
Im inclined to substitute rosewood for the cedar back and sides as I would like a slightly warmer sound and I prefer the look of Rosewood too.
Can anyone advise me as to whether this is a good starting point or are there any modern evolutions I should incorporate into my design?
Although I have never built a guitar before, I have worked with wood for many years, in a DIY capacity, and so am not put off by the enormity of the task..("More fool you" I hear you mutter!)
Any advice or opinions gratefully received!!
Cheers Vince



Flamingrae -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 15 2013 14:36:10)

quote:

am unsure which model from the attached plans, I should attempt first?


Go for the Santo Hernandez. It's the simplest bracing system. Some of the other patterns are over complex for your needs. By all means try if you want, but the Santo should give you what you want. You can change some of the measurements too and even make it with 5 fans rather than 7. If you have good basic woodworking skills - go for it. Might be worth getting a couple more references bookwise and research certain parts on the net. French polish for the finish. Good luck.



Stephen Eden -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 15 2013 20:16:35)

Perhaps think about getting yourself in with a Local luthier to either help you or just give you tuition if they do that sort of thing. It's usually a good way to get a pretty decent first guitar with out having to buy all of the tools needed to build one



keith -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 15 2013 20:54:22)

you could always use the santos design with rosewood back and sides.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 16 2013 6:08:37)

Just remember that the Santos design is a pretty small body and not everyone like sitting with small body guitars. Especially not if they play with crossed legs.



Stephen Eden -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 16 2013 7:09:15)

Anders don't you mean the Torres is a small body? The Santos is pretty average I thought. The Santos is the only flamenco style guitar in the Courtnell book too



captainslow -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 30 2013 8:42:08)

Thanks for your advice so far. I hadnt realised that the Santos is the only flamenco guitar in the book. I am 6ft tall so I would like a normal size guitar so I dont look like Im playing a ukelele..

Has there been any advancement in design since those older designs that would be good to incorporate in my build? Or is there anywhere I can get plans for a modern flamenco guitar that has benefited from further research or new materials over the years?
I guess volume is important as well as tone, if its possible to have both...?

My intention is that I will play this guitar live in gigs doing a mixture of flamenco, latin dance stuff, and Rodrigo y Gabriella type stuff also. I will also be putting some sort of pickup in it rather than rely on microphones.

My apologies to the purists amongst you..I am new to the world of flamenco and envious of your incredible skills and talents, so it will be some time before I dare play that genre live, although its my mission in life to master at least the rudiments...!!
I really appreciate your advice before I commit myself to a particular design.
Thank You



Flamingrae -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 30 2013 11:30:50)

quote:

I will also be putting some sort of pickup in it rather than rely on microphones.


If this is the case and you are using this as a gigging guitar, go for a simple build and make it as best you can. You will probably be pleasantly surprised. There is no point in getting all fancy with bracing if you are going for a semi-acoustic as the final sound will be determined by the maker or breaker also known as a sound engineer. Read as much as you can. Do some basic prep. like a building board. Maybe sort out some bits for your router - I dont know what kit you have? Do a bit of reading on pick up installation - that can come later as you will have to build most of the guitar before you put this in. Dont delay - get on and crank that first one out. When you have done that, then you might want to get fussy about another build.......and so it goes on.........good luck.



Stephen Eden -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 30 2013 12:51:29)

The Santos is not a small guitar. The Torres in the Courntnell book is small. It's pretty ideal for a flamenco guitar too. There are plenty of other plans out there such as Barbero and Reyes too!

Best of luck and if you need any help with anything you might want to pop down to my workshop in bexhill. I had a student come once a week from Canvey Island :)



Escribano -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 30 2013 18:06:12)

If I recall, the Santos plan in Courtnell's book has to be scaled up. I think I bought the full-size plans for it to construct mine (which cracked one very hot English Summer in 100ºF). It was pretty straightforward to make for a first guitar but Anders thought the foot too small to take the strain of stringing, which I never got to test.



Flamingrae -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 31 2013 11:44:03)

quote:

f I recall, the Santos plan in Courtnell's book has to be scaled up.


Now that you mention it, yes. I cant remember what I did originally but it was a simple conversion scaling up on the photocopier to get full size. Not sure about the foot being weak. I use a combo of Santo/Barbero on my guitars and play around with small aspects to check the difference. I may have increased the foot size slightly (not that I was aware of any potential flaw) but I cant check right now as I'm being a slob and doing a major festive family chill. I seem to remember that someone said that the measurements in the book were not quite correct?? I dont care to be honest - it's a guide, which it is, and you have to find your own way and put your own mark there. I bet I'm not the first person to have put the outline of one guitar with the bracing of another (all in keeping with style etc). What I love about the internals of the Santo is the simplicity, but if you want, you can use this as a starting point for experimentation.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 31 2013 17:01:02)

Ok, newyears eve and nothing else to do.
I found that Santos plan that Simon kindly gave me years ago . AND

*Size is pretty standard flamenco. Nothing weird there... (As SEden said, this could be bad memory and me mixing plans in my empty head.)

* The foot is very bulky and not week at all. I would build lighter than that. (I have no excuses for this one. Well, maybe wrong glasses.[&:])

The plan looks good. I´m not to fond of the body shape and I´ve never used the plan myself. Mainly because I prefer 5 braces and 2 closing struts. My layout is a lot closer to Conde (oh noooooo... I said that name. Now this thread will turn into one more hate/love story and neverending discussing how to get that orange colour and where to buy those plastic looking rosettes with roses patterns.)

Enjoy 2014



Sean -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 31 2013 17:08:20)

The plans are easy to copy from the book, you just need 1cm square graph paper.
I would modify the neck width, and string spacings to more modern specs; its too narrow.



Flamingrae -> RE: should my first build be a Torres? (Dec. 31 2013 19:03:20)

quote:

I prefer 5 braces and 2 closing struts.

Ah ha! - this is what I'm doing although leaving out the closers, keeping a bridge reinforcement. Hope to post up soon, as I left in an easy condition to finish in the new year. Going to be a little more experimental but interesting wood.......
Ooooh ! - the "C" word.....well it just slipped out. Everyone lets one go from time to time.

Now where is my glass..........[:D]



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