Kremona Rosa(s)

Kremona Rosa(s) (Full Version)

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Sr. Martins -> Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 2:19:31)
Anyone has opinions on Kremona flamenco guitars? They all have solid B&S except for the entry level model (Rosa Morena). They also have some unusual wood choices for B&S (Indian silver oak on Rosa Diva, Bulgarian Ash on Rosa Bella). Thoughts? Experiences? Videos? Audios? [sm=Smiley Guitar.gif]

keith -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 11:07:01)
i have played a few kremona guitars, both the flamenco versions and classical versions. they are factory built guitars which must be taken into account but in my opinion sound better than other factory guitars at the same price point. i have been impressed with them as they are well made, consistent and have a good quality sound. they probably make a better negra than a blanca--at least the couple of rosas i have played. they usually can be had for a pretty good price.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 11:34:34)
Thanks for your input. Have you tried the Bella and Diva models? How much do they weigh and how's the action? From your description it sound like they are true flamenco guitars instead of "yellow tinted classical guitars" [8D] The fact that they are all solid at this price just blows my mind. Usually I dont like rosewood fretboards (the porous thirsty looking ones) but the ones I looked up on the internet seemed nice and tight.

tijeretamiel -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 12:52:07)
I've tried the Rosa Morena, which is a nice enough guitar. Easy to play but a little lacking in tone, which is to be expected of sorts as it has laminated back and sides. I've tried the Rosa Diva, it's a great guitar for it's price. The Silver Oak back and sides were something between cypress and maple. I'd like to try the Rosa Bella, the Bulgarian Ash seems fascinating.

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 12:57:36)
Drop "Bernd" (a member here from Germany) a PM. He wrote a review about this model a while ago and visited their stand in the music fair. I think he was positively suprised about the quality of workmanship, sound, etc. For a while, this model seam to have been an "insider tip" for that price range and probably much better than many other brands in that price range. If you can wait until March next year, i will be in the music fair again (last time i mainly invested my time in the stands of Sanchis lopez and Felipe Conde since i'm not that interested in any other brand anymore [:D]),,,, but i wanted to check out these bulgarian guys this time and see what they have to offer and whats up with this Rosa model. I could then give you my impression and write a review or something (which of course is always subjective). BTW, the Rosa Morena is laminated and shouldn't be confused with this model which is massive and probably much better (and pricier). Seams like its only this blanca model which really stood out.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 13:13:34)
What model are you refering to Arash? Rosa Diva or Rosa Bella? Iam fascinated by what both models offer for the price.

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 13:57:18)
The model is called "Rosa Blanca" http://www.kremona.com/index.php/en/the-flamenco-series/rosa-blanca-flamenco

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 14:02:41)
Ah, that one.... is a bit more expensive. I wonder if the 2 models below that one (Rosa Diva/Bella) are of the same quality minus the ebony fretboard and cypress b&s. At least they are also made of all solid woods.

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 14:09:27)
Bernd probably tried those too. I can imagine they are probably inferior in sound or if you don't want to call it inferior, then different and not as aggressive and singing as this blanca model, but workmanship etc. is probably comparable.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 14:11:40)
Hmm, thats nice. Ive already emailed him to inquire about these models. Thanks

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 15:32:32)
By the way... Anyone's familiar with Indian Silver Oak and Ash as woods for B&S? The idea I got from what I've googled is that Oak has more bass and somewhat balanced mids/trebs. Ash has more upfront mids/trebs and overall punch. Is this true?

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 6 2013 22:27:37)
Hi Rui, by looking here I´ve heard your call you already mailed me ;-) Thanks to Arash [;)] The negra at the Kremona booth was nothing special. Talking to the process manager (a German) made clear that they are no flamenco specialists. Besides their main business of their own guitar line they build for different shops and distributors as OEM manufacturer. Obviously they have seem to have a good quality standard generally. Their Rosa Negra couldn´t catch me off a barbecue, because it wasn´t very special. Maybe that was a selection result in the reason of a non-flamenco player. The Rosa Blanca was much more precisely, direct and punchy with a good response nearly over the hole spectrum. Regarding the price I can only refer to the market presence in Germany, and here it is a VERY competetive guitar! Regarding Indian Silver Oak I have an association to Oak, especially German Oak. The German oak is a very heavy wood that´s very alive. I don´t want this wood never ever for sure on any guitar, because I see lots of cracks comming. So this is my fearful association to oak. Maybe a luthier can give some more qualified info on Indian Silver Oak. Regarding the bass sound and balanced mids and trebles at first I trust in Indian Rosewood. At second for a balanced sound range I trust in the craftsmanship of the guitar maker, because it´s his dayly buisiness. Saludos Bernd

keith -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 11:57:38)
rui-- i tried out the rosewood model (the morena i believe is the model). guitar center was asking around $700 and it had a pretty decent negra tone--again, for a factory guitar at that price point. i have no clue about the oak or ash as a tonewood but have read ash gives a guitar (steel string) good mid to bright tones--a tad brighter than maple. it would be interesting to hear these woods as a blanca or negra substitute wood.

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 12:14:53)
quote: ORIGINAL: keith rui-- i tried out the rosewood model (the morena i believe is the model). guitar center was asking around $700 GSI is too expensive. You can get them here for $499, new http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kremona-Rosa-Morena-Flamenco-Guitar-/380666491473?pt=Guitar&hash=item58a17db251

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 13:01:24)
It seems that Rosa Morena is laminated back & sides and thats why thats the cheaper model. Iam looking towards the ash or oak back & sides (solid). They told me that the ash model weighs 1,6kg and the oak 1,4kg... pretty weighty ash uh? [8D] The "out of the box" measurements they gave me: 8mm at the bridge/3mm at 12th I still dont know whats the neck shape/thickness [8\|]

keith -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 15:06:10)
arash--the folks at xguitars are good people and that price is nice. i suspect guitar center (not salon) are going cheaper now that there is some competition--or at least, in theory, they should. that said, guitar center guitars are good to play if one is in the neighborhood but buying from there is very iffy unless there is a freak of a good nylon guitar. rui--american ash is the wood of choice for baseball bats and it would be interesting to know more about bulgarian ash as a tonewood. as i recall the neck was comfortable or at least playing the guitar did not elicit a thought of discomfort. it is definitely more comfortable than cordoba guitars--at least for my hands.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 15:47:55)
Hmm... So how would you guys compare these guitars to a Hermanos Sanchis? Iam only asking for this comparison because the price is about the same and I always like the sound of those guitars in every youtube videos (that crispy "krrak" sound for the lack of a better term).

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 16:50:34)
The Kremona sound is not comparable to HSL. In fact you can be sure not catch a HSL that has the brutal crack sound. Surely you´ll get loud guitar, but in each model the sound quality range is quite different. In 2005 I ordered an individual HSL while visiting them at their workshop. As the guitar came, it had good basses but so extremly hard trebles that even the worst Conde never provided. A HSL I never will buy without playing at first! I was happy when someone bought it. And this buyer sold it, too. You surely can get wonderful "canons" of HSL, but to be honest, their craftsmanship is generally very slampy (lacks and blemish of laquer, unprecise drilled mechanic holes, uneven fretboard diameter at he edge of E1 & E6 etc). If you have small hands and know your limits, then you should know that HSL flamencas come with 660/53 mm. That´s out of range for my small hands. The action at bridge sometimes more than 9 mm. You will need a long nail plate if you don´t want get hurt by playing i-golpes. If you cannot reduce the action yourself, then you need to spend some extra cash to a guitar maker. Lowering the action to 8 mm took my HSL a strong part of its aggressiveness. If you buy a used HSL, than make sure that it´s built not before 2005. The earlier guitars ALL have a wrong fret distance. This results in an unprecise tonality. To equalize this circumstance you need a new fretboard with new frets. This will cost you an extra at roundabout 250 €. The Kremona is more a singing flamenca while the HSL is screamer. Good luck! [:D]

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 17:29:09)
Thanks for the comparison. Iam not really interested in volume, not at all. What I like about HSL is that usual "clack clack clack" sound that you get when brushing the nail through the strings, everything sounds very separated... and its not an expensive guitar. EQ-wise I dont like bass (the "boooom wooof" kind). I like that midrange growl when you push harder and singing trebles is my preference (but not too "round" or reverby). Basically I like a trebly and precise bass, growly mids when pushed and trebles that have more meat to them than my current Alhambra 4F (there's lots of treble here but its kinda hollow... can't describe it better).

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 18:00:13)
For singing trebles you shouldn´t buy a guitar that follows a bit the former Conde sound. Singing trebles is the Granada school of lutherie, not Madrid which is often harder.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 18:16:28)
By singing I mean "trebles that have color" instead of the note being just a frequency that is vibrating from a plastic string. Got it? Maybe not [:D] If singing trebles means "mellow" trebles then no, thats not what Iam looking for. Iam more into old flamenco records kind of sound even though that kind of sound was mainly because of the equipment used. You can almost hear tubes frying. [:D] I like the Conde sound a lot but some of them are too bassy for my taste. I prefer the Vicente Amigo kind of bass.

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 19:33:25)
Condes are not so 'bassy' as Sanchis are in my opinion. Also the pulsation and feel of a Ricardo Sanchis is a bit more similar to Condes than the Son's guitars are imo. What i don't like so much are the Negras of the Sanchis (for my taste). I prefer their cypress blancas and like them a lot. But its true that they could be a little more careful with the workmanship, specially for their 1F extra models. But the recent ones i played were almost all good sounding and feeling guitars anyway.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 19:51:34)
The bassy I was refering to is not the boomy bass... its the powerful bass. I dont dig it that much but hey, thats just the overall idea Ive got from youtube and my big speakers[:D]

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 21:46:40)
I agree with Arash and like the HSL cypress blancas more than the negras. In comparison to the blancas the negras tend to sound more brave (not all but most). So I miss an accentuation of a sound that´s more chisleled. At any other brand you have this habit in the negra versions. What never ever will come into my four walls is a blanca with a maple body [:@] If you hear older flamenco records e. g. from 50th and 60th, these sounds have nothing to do with the latest Conde sound before that what Felipe Condo offers. Imo he offers too less guitar for a much too high price. A colleague wrote a review for German guitar magazine about an Estudio blanca. Its price is 4500 €! Imo hard to believe that some would spend such an amount for an estudio model. He wrote it kind of eloquently that beginners considered it as a high level valuable instrument while exprerienced players could read between the lines that this guitar was just (sorry) s#it. If I ever would chose a new conde, than I surely will prefer a Mariano.

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 7 2013 23:21:02)
Iam now considering the Rosa Blanca model too. The ash model (Bella) weighs 1.6kg... the silver oak model (Diva) is lighter but Iam still trying to figure out if I think of it as an exotic guitar or a ugly color/texture match between B&S and the top [&:] That leaves Rosa Blanca with a rosette that reminds me of Anders' guitars so they must sound and feel very good. I followed this same principle when buying the Alhambra (it's orange).... ...joking [:D]

Arash -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 8 2013 8:05:27)
The FC26 from Felipe are very good guitars. A lot of these "new condes are always bad, old ones are always good" is also simply hearsay. I would even compare two FC26s which i played from Felipe with a Conde like the one from Chicuelo for instance However, I would never suggest buying a 'studio' model from Conde for that price. For 4200 Euro you can even find good used Media Lunas. But i think the estudio models are cheaper (around 2500), so i don't know how they come up with the 4200 euro price! But even for 2500 euros you can buy 1F extra from sanchis or other good guitars (new and used) . Anyway, so, if Conde, then the 'real' Conde. If student, go for Sanchis or other brands where you get more for you money. Negras is a difficult issue. Its hard to find Negras which are 'flamenco' enough to be considered as flamenco guitars and not simply classical guitars with a tap plate, and i am not speaking about setup, etc. but the sound and pulsation. Also Blancas are much more 'multitalents', good for accompany, dance, duo, solo, etc. Negras are 'huge' soundwise and cover too much spectrum and often tend to leave less musical 'space' for the rest. (might sound weird, but thats how i feel meanwhile). imo good Negras are pefect for Toque Libre solo pieces.

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 23 2013 4:42:33)
@ Rui have you already bought a Rosa blanca?

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 23 2013 12:56:02)
quote: have you already bought a Rosa blanca? There were some things that I didn't like about Rosa Blanca (individual tuners, rosette) so I decided to place a custom order. Should be ready before christmas.

bernd -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Nov. 24 2013 19:28:12)
Great. Let us know about your new choice. I will get soon a flamenca negra of Gabriél Cabrera´s brother to check. He builds flamenco guitars as a hobby. Maybe there´s a new baby up to come for me [:)]

Sr. Martins -> RE: Kremona Rosa(s) (Dec. 13 2013 17:33:17)
The guitar is ready and my gf got it today but... she's only coming back to Portugal on january [:(] At the moment I have textual descriptions and everything seems to be as I ordered. Tomorrow I'll have some pictures [8D]

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