Loose nut??? (Full Version)

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britguy -> Loose nut??? (Oct. 24 2013 20:56:20)

I was talking briefly with a luthier today regarding setups, etc.

He described how critical the fitting of the nut had to be, tight, but not too tight , etc. etc.

I told him that two of my (custom-built) guitars had very loose nuts. In fact when I change the strings they fall out on the floor sometimes. He recommended I had new nuts made that fitted tighter.

Just how critical is this nut/slot fit, and what effect might it have on the guitars playability, sound, whatever???

Should I have the nuts replaced, or can they be re-fitted to be tighter fit?



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 24 2013 21:08:13)

I'm not sure if it makes a noticeable difference as far as sound (though I doubt it), but if you want them to be tighter you could coat the side that butts against the head with Super Glue--and let it dry before reinserting the nut, just to build it up a little.



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 24 2013 21:14:14)

quote:

coat the side that butts against the head with Super Glue--and let it dry before reinserting the nut, just to build it up a little.


Yes, I thought of trying something like that. But was afraid it might have some negative effects???



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 2:36:30)

Unlikely. If it is too tight, then just sand that face.

(Okay, I've done it and there were no ill effects. But I sell guitars with well-fitting nuts that have not been modified.)

Another thing you could do is insert a piece of thin veneer or a wood shaving.



Doitsujin -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 4:49:42)

Just saw the headline... oh yes gentlemen... a loose nut is a serious problem :)))) You luthiers and your subtle jokes....



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 9:32:27)

Everything has its importance, and a loose nut may transmit a tiny bit less vibrations to the neck and the head, which then will transmit a very wee little less to the guitar body which in consequense might end up refusing to play. [:-]

Do what Ethan suggests or give the nut (of the guitar) 2 very small drops of superglue on the bottom extremes and put it on.



tele -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 12:43:17)

quote:

nut (of the guitar)




Only way to avoid joke replies, smart move[;)]

If someone can hear the difference when the nut is in contact with the sides or not I have to wonder if it's a placebo. It should be enough that the nut's bottom is completely flat



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 13:10:34)

Or, try switching the nuts from the two guitars--maybe they'll fit tightly in their new hosts.[:D] Just kidding.

I once made a new bone nut for a Spanish guitar that came with a plastic nut...and couldn't notice a difference in sound. And I'm not deaf.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 13:12:38)

quote:

Just saw the headline... oh yes gentlemen... a loose nut is a serious problem :)))) You luthiers and your subtle jokes....


Yes, I've been working hard to restrain myself with this one.



TANúñez -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 15:22:34)

Tighter briefs fix this problem. [8D]



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 21:31:43)

quote:

oh yes gentlemen... a loose nut is a serious problem :)))) You luthiers and your subtle jokes....


I KNEW IT!!!

Right after I clicked OK on this post; I thought : ' H M M M, stupid title'. 'I'll bet anything that eccentric ( trying to be poilite here Doit) gentleman (?) from Sh*tsville will pick up on this one real quick!'

And; sure enough. . . . . . .

(I guess I was asking for it. . . .)




tele -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 25 2013 23:06:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: constructordeguitarras

I once made a new bone nut for a Spanish guitar that came with a plastic nut...and couldn't notice a difference in sound. And I'm not deaf.


I doubt I could hear a difference, too. I think the material and fit of the saddle bone is more important than the nut, but it's quite possible I couldn't hear a difference with that also.



estebanana -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 26 2013 3:54:20)

If my nuts are not loose I get fussy. If they are too tight I get even fussier.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 26 2013 3:56:34)

Now you've done it. Oh well, someone had to start.



Doitsujin -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 26 2013 6:22:47)

?



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 26 2013 19:58:51)

quote:

give the nut (of the guitar) 2 very small drops of superglue on the bottom extremes and put it on.


I want to be sure of your exact meaning here, Anders.

Does this mean the bottom face of nut (of the guitar) will be glued to the bottom of the slot?



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 1:30:52)

I think with violins, which have an ebony nut, it is normal to glue the bottom of the nut to the neck with one drop of glue, so it can be removed with a slight rap with a small hammer.



Wayne Brown -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 1:45:39)

I build mostly steel strings and I always use a couple of drops of Titebond glue underneath the nut. They can be removed with a small block and a rap with a small hammer ( like Ethan said) if need be!



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 7:56:57)

quote:


quote:

give the nut (of the guitar) 2 very small drops of superglue on the bottom extremes and put it on.


I want to be sure of your exact meaning here, Anders.

Does this mean the bottom face of nut (of the guitar) will be glued to the bottom of the slot?


Ethan and Wayne answered it perfectly well.
Super glue is not elastic at all, so a its easy to break its gluing surface and besides it doesnt bond to well on cedar. Two very small drops are enough.



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 11:37:59)

quote:

I always use a couple of drops of Titebond glue underneath the nut.


"violins, which have an ebony nut, it is normal to glue the bottom of the nut to the neck with one drop of glue,"

"Ethan and Wayne answered it perfectly well. "

Thanks, Anders, Ethan and Wayne. Will do as suggested.

(BTW, Wayne, where is Huntersville, NC? I drive through the Carolinas 2-3 times a year via I-77, usually overnighting at Statesville. Are you anywhere near there? )



tele -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 12:31:18)

I think it's useless using titebond for improving sound. the nut stays in it's place under the tension of the strings and if you need to change the nut or make adjustments and remove it you won't have to scrape off the remains of the glue before placing it back. steel string guitars might need glue but with nylons it's pretty pointless i think



C. Vega -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 13:04:50)

The nut on a classical or flamenco guitar should not require gluing.
I think what Ethan was suggesting was to build up the thickness of the nut with a bit of superglue on the side that butts against the headstock veneer(s) so that it fits more tightly in it's slot after the glue has hardened. Let the glue harden completely before trying it for fit. If you happen use too much, just sand it down a bit until the nut fits snugly.
The nuts on some steel string guitars may require a small dab of glue to initially hold them in place since they often, by design, have no headstock veneer(s) to help hold the nut in place.



Wayne Brown -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 13:19:35)

Britguy
I'm about a mile+ off I-77 north of Charlotte in the Lake Norman area.



tele -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 13:53:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

The nut on a classical or flamenco guitar should not require gluing.
I think what Ethan was suggesting was to build up the thickness of the nut with a bit of superglue on the side that butts against the headstock veneer(s) so that it fits more tightly in it's slot after the glue has hardened. Let the glue harden completely before trying it for fit. If you happen use too much, just sand it down a bit until the nut fits snugly.


Yet this would suggest that there's some benefit to doing this why would otherwise anyone do it?
If someone can hear the difference if a nut(of the guitar) is touching the headstock veneer / the fretboard or not then I'm surprised.



C. Vega -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 14:06:12)

The only reason I can think of as to why some people (not me) might want to do this is if they change strings by removing all of the old ones at the same time, the nut falls out and it bothers them. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this. I'd just put it back in. That said, the nuts on my guitars fit as they should. They are not glued and they don't fall out, thank you very much.

Soundwise, I seriously doubt that it matters but there are always some people who will swear that they can hear a difference.



tele -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 14:31:34)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

The only reason I can think of as to why some people (not me) might want to do this is if they change strings by removing all of the old ones at the same time, the nut falls out and it bothers them. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with this. I'd just put it back in. That said, the nuts on my guitars fit as they should. They are not glued and they don't fall out, thank you very much.

Soundwise, I seriously doubt that it matters but there are always some people who will swear that they can hear a difference.


People who change the strings all at once could just keep the guitar in their lap until they have at least one string installed. [8D]



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 27 2013 20:30:20)

quote:

I'm about a mile+ off I-77 north of Charlotte in the Lake Norman area.


Lovely area. Nice place to live. I pass through there several times a year driving down to Florida and back.



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 29 2013 12:48:04)

Another little trick that I use for keeping nuts in place: make the nut slot very slightly tapered and gently wedge the nut in. Like .1 or .2 mm taper from end to end.



britguy -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 29 2013 14:14:35)

quote:

make the nut slot very slightly tapered and gently wedge the nut in


I take it you mean tapered vertically, narrower at the bottom of the slot?

That must be a bit tricky to be so precise?



Andy Culpepper -> RE: Loose nut??? (Oct. 29 2013 14:49:04)

Nope, the other way. End to end.



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