Morao y Oro (Full Version)

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Miguel de Maria -> Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 13:14:44)

I'd like to open a discussion on this album to get people's impressions of it. I recently bought a lot of music, and this CD was one of them.

Of course I had heard a lot about Moraito, so I expected a lot. Apparently too much--because after about 4 listenings, it's hard to see what the fuss is about. He opens with a Sevillanas played with such force and agression that I feel sorry for the guitar. There is little ornamention or subtlety, and overall the interpretation more on the barbaric side than what I would expect, a graceful and jovial style.

Having heard the piece "buleriando" mentioned, I expected a lot too. A couple of the arpeggio falsetas are nice, and it seems that this is a major part of this style. Since he's a Jerezano, I expected to get my socks blown off here. Again, it really didn't do much for me.

Repeated listenings turned up that I actually enjoyed his Tangos most of all--a couple of the falsetas I enjoyed very much. One of the arpeggio-based ones was simple but effective.

I also liked the Rondena, especially the Fandangos part at the end. A nice rhythm and exciting solo piece here.

Overall, Moraito's technique seems harsh and about the same level of Juan Martin. I guess when you listen to Paco, Tomatito, Vicente, then you expect a lot from these guys. Perhaps Moraito is known more as an accompaniast than a soloist--in the parts where he is accompanying on this album, his playing seems to have more energy and verve. The album seems a good one for ear training since some of the falsetas are very simple. There is no fancy-schmancy jazz chords, just old fashioned flamenco, and that's good sometimes. I also got a Riqueni album and the difference in styles is noticeable to say the least. So far I have listened to the Moraito album a lot more, so maybe that says something.

I would be interested in hearing the impressions of those who are more familiar with his work.



Jon Boyes -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 13:51:30)

I think its one of the classic modern solo guitar flamenco CDs and I couldn't disagree more. The Rondena is gorgeous, the Sevillanas is fresh, modern and very cool, and I don't hear any harshness or anything overly aggresive (this is flamenco, remember?[;)])

Both the bulerias are great and very Jerez. Solea is so-so. The Tarantas is probably my al time favourite by any guitarist.

Moraito may not have the chops of Tomatito or PDL but IMO he is in a completely different class to Juan Martin, Mike.



Skai -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 14:41:02)

I wouldn't compare Juan Martin with him. Martin's in a class of his own. He's basically the perfect flamenco metronome, 'Look! I can stay in compas!' [:D]



duende -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 15:46:35)

I think that album is great. But i prefer Moraito accompanying singers.
I think that is his forte.



Ricardo -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 21:04:14)

Part of the reason he has a bright naily sound is because he uses fake nails. That harshness is a big part of the flamenco feeling and sound. That is why he is the prefered accomp. for most singers. He knows how to give life and inspiration to the singer. I think some of the smooth jazzier players are lacking the cojones when accomp. nowadays, for certain palos. I dont' like making general statements liike that, but that is IMO of course.

As far as technique, complexity or seeming easiness of his falsetas, I rarely hear people play his stuff with same strength, though I have heard many describe his stuff as "easy". Once again I think it comes down to rhythm. He has an AMAZING groove. Technique has more to do with music than speed and sound. He is an EXTREMELY clean player, I hear Paco flub more notes. And to control rhythm that well you need the technique to do it. Your comparison to Juan Martin is WAY off IMO. If anyone has the rhythm chops to play Morao, than you will have no problems playing Tomatito or Amigo stuff.

Morao has been the most busy accomp. for recordings, so a solo recording project for him probabley feels funny. He has said just about everything he has wanted to say falseta wise over the years on the various cante albums he has played on. I suggest you experience him more that way. His solo albums are just a collection of his falsetas. That is all that is required for flamenco guitar solos. He does not need to compose grandiose pieces ala M. Sanlucar to be considered a great composer in this genre.

Ricardo



Ron.M -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 21:15:38)

Personally, I find Moraito a very "down home" Jerez player with a fantastic "warm" sound and great rhythm & feeling.
He's got a great sense of humour and "taking life easy" which comes through in his playing, along with some fantastically "jondo" phrases that take your breath away.
If anybody is Flamenco ...es Moraito IMO.

Totally inspiring player.

cheers

Ron



Escribano -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 22:24:32)

quote:

If anybody is Flamenco ...es Moraito IMO.



Here, here and a great sport. One of my early videos featuring Moraito demonstrating his technique[:D]

http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/1/Yw66678.wmv



Trev -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 18 2005 22:36:30)

It's interesting to me that people refer to Moraito's playing as "easy". I have yet to hear anyone perform his falsetas correctly, that is, with the same feel, i.e. compas. He has this inherent swing to his playing that is very inspiring and very difficult to achieve. And I agree that Moraito is flamenco.
Trev



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 3:53:28)

Well, guys thanks for all this learned feedback--this was exactly what I was hoping to get. I guess I'll just have to keep listening to the album until I get it.



duende -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 6:32:00)

He does a lot of Jose Merces albums as well. Don´t know it it´s all of them but anyway.
I got a Puro y Jondo videos where he plays with Jose merce. I can watch that video
3-4 times a day easy!
When Jose sings jondo stuff nobody (alive) touch him. Maybe Capullo.



Crows -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 6:54:13)

Hi Duende,

I have the DVD as well.

This was the first time I heard Jose Merce, it really is good, powerfull, full of feeling. Moraito is great, telepathic. It looks a great pairing.

What I would like to ask is, have you found anything else of his that compares wrt style and feeling? I've only heard a couple of his (Jose Merce) CD's and I have found them a bit lightweight for my taste. I appreciate that he is to some extent a 'crossover' artist and is helping popularise Flamenco, but I would love to hear some more of that heavy stuff.

Cheers, Andy.



duende -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 8:55:11)

I have trouble finding a cd thats not a mix ´tween light and heavy.
I have to look around. I tell you what i find.



Phil -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 15:11:29)

quote:

When Jose sings jondo stuff nobody (alive) touch him.


I agree 100%. IMO he records a lot of crap. But when he sings 'puro y duro' he is one of the best cantaores alive. Unfortunatley, you have to see him live to appreciate this and that's not possible for many people. His Siguiriyas are second only to Manuel Agujetas.

Phil



Phil -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 15:35:08)

quote:

Overall, Moraito's technique seems harsh


I have to disagree with that. I don't think his technique is bad (although I don't think his technique is at the level of G. Nunez, for example), it's just that he's not a very good composer of solo pieces. He's the top accompanist today for a very good reason, he's an outstanding Flamenco accompanist, and solo is just not his forte.

Try and find some CD's of other singers he's accompanied like Terremoto, Ines Bacan, El Zambo, Pepa de Benito, etc. and you'll hear him at his best. A year or 2 ago in Jerez I heard G. Nunez accompany one of the Sorderas and Moraito accompany Merce (I think) por Siguiriyas there is no doubt in my mind which was more Flamenco.


Phil



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 19 2005 21:34:13)

Interesting that you think he's not a good composer of solo pieces, and Jon thinks the album is a "modern masterpiece." That's a little different.

I don't know, guys, I've been listening to this album almost nonstop the last couple of days. Then I put on Tomatito's, "Nuevo Media Colleccion." How could these guys be considered in the same class? Tomatito's falsetas are so much more fluid, faster, and more fun. Not to mention more melodic. Next to Tomatito, Moraito's tech sounds like Juan Martin to me, still. And when I hear Tomatito, I tap my feet and smile, and Morao just makes me cringe. Again, this is one, perhaps poorly recorded album of solo pieces, and I'm only referring to it.



Jon Boyes -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 20 2005 16:57:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Interesting that you think he's not a good composer of solo pieces, and Jon thinks the album is a "modern masterpiece." That's a little different.


Hey, if you are going to quote me, don't misquote me [:D]

I agree that he is not the composer that say, Vicente is, but I still think its one of the classics of the modern flamenco era. I suppose I don't necessarily need 'compositions' to enjoy flamenco guitar. Its a nice summary of Moraito, if you like. He has a great groove and a great feel, great Jerez sound. I prefer Tomatito too, but I still think Moraito is up there with the best.



ToddK -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 20 2005 17:18:20)

If you watch Tomatito's Encuentro Video, and then
immediately watch Moraito's Encuentro video, its very clear
that Moraito is right up there. Sure, no 200 bpm picado,
but, ya know, so f'ing what. Moraito has all the sound and groove
you could ever want.

These videos show the players
way stripped down. And the recording techniques are the same,
so you can really hear it raw, and compare them directly.
IMHO, Tomatito's and Vicent's recordings are produced fairly
heavily compared to Moraito.

You can hear past that in the Encuentro vids.



Patrick -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 20 2005 18:18:51)

quote:

IMHO, Tomatito's and Vicent's recordings are produced fairly
heavily compared to Moraito.


TK,

I don't think I fully agree. Personally I have spent a lot of time with Marao y Oro and it feels like it has massive amounts of editing going on. I may be wrong, but I hear tons of compression being used. When I am listening to it in my car, the trebles are so loud and penetrating it hurts my ears.

Also listen to the reverb used. I spent hours trying to find something remotely close with no success. In fact I am convinced the main reason this CD sounds the way it does is due to editing. Man I'm telling you, I don't care how good of a Conde he has, no one can make one sound like that live.

I’m not just saying this off the cuff. Some of you may remember the Group Solea project we did. On one of the recordings, I did the intro, which was from this CD. In that project I put in hours trying do get close to the sound he has with very little success. My conclusion was, not only is he a monster player, but the recording itself had a lot to do with the overall sound.



sorin popovici -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 22 2005 9:22:03)

I have the least experience but I've seen the Tomatito Encuentro and the Moraito Encuentro.
So....IMO ....Tomatito seemed very guitaristic in his playing ,Moraito seemed the man
with the most (maybe simple I dont know) close to me falsetas.I put the Moraito
video and I can sing along with his falsetas ,I cant do that with Tomatito's falsetas ...seems
like tomatito's falsetas are more tricks about the guitar.When I wanna feel optimistic and
get some energy ..Moraito helps(also u can learn more from him in the encuentro,and
in Tomatito's I didnt learn anything ...probably I have to be more advance).Nevertheless
Tomatito's last tango rule!

i've learnt this ,in a way simple p a m i arpeggio for tangos...boy if u look at that in the
Encuentro video ...u cant believe that agressive playing , he really loses it there.I've learnt
this word duende ,I think he has it there.

I've heard that his son is also a guitarist .Is it true ? Is he any good btw?



duende -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 22 2005 9:53:07)

his son playes on the "la tana" album produced by Paco de lucia



Ricardo -> RE: Morao y Oro (Nov. 22 2005 18:18:32)

Moraito's son is one of my current favorites (Diego del Morao), but he has yet to record his own solo album. His style has a lot more modern influence than his father (V amigo and PdL influences), but on the album Jerez Joven por Bulerias, he very deliberately plays in his father's style. And of course it is nice to hear him play side by side with his dad on Zambo's albums and other jerez singers. But by himself, he sounds like a different guy with his own thing going on. Listen to him play for Macanita (her last album?), and La Tana as mentioned.

Ricardo



aloysius -> RE: Morao y Oro (Dec. 4 2005 22:07:04)

I think it would be fairer to judge Moraito's album work on his second album "Morao Morao" rather than on "Morao y Oro" - a much better album IMO (and in his according to an interview) as well as having a much better production. And of course many of his great albums with singers. I saw his son Diego play in Penas in Jerez several times in 1999 (when he was about 19) and he COMPLETELY blew me away. It's great to see he's started to get a lot of good work now. If he puts out a solo album soon I think it will be the most important debut since "De mi Corazon al Aire"
- Aloysius



Guest -> [Deleted] (Dec. 5 2005 1:39:55)

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veet -> RE: Morao y Oro (Dec. 12 2005 18:18:37)

Diego is sin duda very good, entirely different style from his father. Lighter, sweeter, more jazzy, more Vicente.

My preference is the father. Rhythmically, he's very special. Nobody, but nobody _swings_ as hard as Moraito. It's not about how many notes you cram in, but about surprises in emFAsis.

I love Tomatito, I love Gerardo, but Moraito has a special soulfulness that sets him apart.

Your mileage may vary....



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Morao y Oro (Dec. 12 2005 21:22:44)

I wish I felt the same. It's sitting in my car CD change right next to Riqueni and I listen to them back to back. I enjoy the Riqueni, Alcazar de Cristal, much more. I guess it's just a matter of personal preference.



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