Rambling Around Arizona (Full Version)

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BarkellWH -> Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 13 2013 23:18:45)

Marta and I escaped from the political deadlock and miasma of Washington to spend nearly three weeks in Arizona. Both of us have lived in Arizona (I was born and grew up here, and Marta left Brazil to study here on a scholarship), and we return from time to time. We began in Tucson, where we stayed in an area just north of the city named Oro Valley. A beautiful desert area with the Santa Catalina mountains as a backdrop.

The whole area of Southern Arizona into Northern Mexico is known as the Sonoran Desert. It is the only maritime desert in the world, as it encompasses the Sea of Cortez, both on the mainland Mexico side and on the Baja side. The area around Tucson has interesting flora and fauna, and, of course, great Mexican food! And the Sonoran Desert in Mexico surrounding the Sea of Cortez has a stark, severe beauty, with the desert meeting the sea.

We are now in flagstaff, in Northern Arizona at an elevation of 7,000 Ft. Today we visited one of the most interesting sites, the Meteor Crater, which is about 38 miles east of Flagstaff. The Meteor Crater in Arizona is the world's most perfectly defined impact crater, formed 50,000 years ago by the impact and explosion of a meteorite. This is the place where Apollo astronauts were trained from 1963 to 1970, as the crater bears a striking resemblance to craters found on the moon.

It is also one of two Holy Grails for conspiracy theorists, as there are those who deny that the US ever landed men on the moon, claiming that it was all staged at the Meteor Crater training site itself in Arizona. (Note: the other Holy Grail is Area 51 in Nevada, where instead of testing highly secret aircraft like the U-2 and SR-71, conspiracy theorists believe the US Air Force is withholding information on UFOs and keeping the remains of captured estraterrestrial aliens in giant vats of formaldihyde.

Four more days in Flagstaff exploring environs, and then on to spend a few days in the Phoenix-Scottsdale-Tempe area for more good Mexican food at my favorite restaurant--Rositas in Tempe--to which I keep returning after first discovering its delights 45 years ago.

Cheers,

Bill



estebanana -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 0:42:17)

Bill,

Glad to hear it. It must be beautiful to look out across the desert early in the morning as the sun rises. This time of Year is good because the heat of mid summer is gone ans the clearness of the atmosphere is at a peak. I can almost smell the fresh air.

You need to steer clear of the energy vortex in Sedona- Reptilian space creatures are no longer threat as they have been absorbed into the body politic of the UN, but surgically changed into human form. The danger now are the NewAge transplants from California who want to drink your precious bodily fluids and give them to the to the Aquarius Paradigm Shift Vortex.

They believe when the Vortex is full of human DNA samples it will set up a calling system in outer space which will summon another race of space reptiles to come battle and and defeat the Evil Larry King Reptiles and free the UN.

Don't buy into it, it's the a latest email marketing scam from Nigeria.

Have some chili for me~



estebanana -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 0:46:26)

And if it gets too hot you can come visit Akune. When I'm not slaving away in my kobo (shop) I'm at Wakimoto beach surfing:
(but mostly I'm slaving, the surfing has been good for the back) ~

Pictures of Arizona!



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 6:32:51)

I let it slide the first time...but actually the SR-71 Blackbird's first flight tests were flown from Palmdale, not Area 51. Just an engineer's decades of training to speak up--or in my ex-wife's perception, to be a pain in the a s s .

A couple of years ago we went to the Air and Space Museum's site at Dulles Airport outside Washington DC. You walk in on a long, wide stone paved passage, ending in a balcony that overlooks the display area one floor below. Front and center sits an SR-71, immense, huge, radically shaped, as much a projectile as an aircraft, painted blue-black to dissipate the searing heat generated by the friction of the air against its titanium skin at hypersonic speed. Surounded by dozens of iconic aircraft, the Space Shuttle Enterprise behind it, the SR-71 seemed to stand apart. To us it radiated an aura of power, speed, and---menace.

Larisa's mother was an aeronautical engineer, my father was an Air Force officer. Both of us were around airplanes, up close from our earliest memories. Our reaction was the same, "Holy s h i t, it's the Blackbird!" followed by awed silence.

RNJ



estebanana -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 9:37:03)

The A-11 is probably in the top ten of the most interesting things humans have ever built.



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 14:34:47)

I have been to the Udvar-Hazy branch of the Air and Space Museum near Dulles Airport as well, and the SR-71 Blackbird is indeed as beautiful and menacing an aircraft as has ever been built. It is pure beauty and function. I have seen U-2s in operational mode, but the SR-71 at the Air and Space Museum is the only time I have been close to a Blackbird.

I mentioned the U-2 and SR-71 in my previous post regarding testing at Area 51 because highly classified aircraft are tested there, and those two probably are the most widely known of highly classified aircraft. Although the SR-71 may not have been initially tested at Area 51, it gives people an idea of what does go on there. (As opposed to withholding evidence of UFOs and keeping extraterrestrials in vats of formaldihyde.)

Cheers,

Bill



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 18:44:05)

Bill, my parents are in town, and I took them to TeePee last night. I actually wanted to take them to Rositas, but got overruled. TeePee is another very old TexMex kind of place. Apparently, its claim to fame is that Bush dined there a few years back. I could hear patrons talking about that iconic event even last night!



tri7/5 -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 19:13:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

I mentioned the U-2 and SR-71 in my previous post regarding testing at Area 51 because highly classified aircraft are tested there, and those two probably are the most widely known of highly classified aircraft. Although the SR-71 may not have been initially tested at Area 51, it gives people an idea of what does go on there. (As opposed to withholding evidence of UFOs and keeping extraterrestrials in vats of formaldihyde.)

Cheers,

Bill



Now we all know that Area 51 doesn't actually exist because the government says so [:D]



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 19:31:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tri7/5

Now we all know that Area 51 doesn't actually exist because the government says so [:D]


On the day in 2002 when the contract at Kwajalein was awarded to a new company, I received six phone calls from recruiters. One was working for Raytheon, my employer at the time, but he was a contractor from Chicago. He read off the unclassified job description. Immediately I realized that the job was at Area 51. It had nothing to do with aircraft flight testing, or with space aliens either. The recruiter had no idea the job was at Area 51.

I said, "You don't want me." I told him my job title and salary. He replied that they had six openings at my level, the highest technical rank at Raytheon, and that my name had specifically been given to him by Raytheon top management.

I thought about it, looked up Las Vegas real estate on the web. I thought about getting up early every morning, driving to the airport, getting on the unmarked plane and flying north into the desert, only to return on the same plane that evening, or to spend the night at the less than stellar accommodations at the base if there was overtime work to be done. It was the only offer I seriously considered. In the end I decided to stay at Kwaj with the new contractor, having already negotiated an acceptable deal with them.

Here's the history of house prices in Las Vegas.

http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/las_vegas.html

I wasn't even thinking of the house price bubble when I made my decision. I ended up much better off financially to stay at Kwaj, and to buy my house in Austin for cash at the bottom of the recession in January 2009.

Besides, the sailing and diving were a lot better at Kwajalein than at Las Vegas.[:D]

RNJ



Mark2 -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 20:19:31)

What is the water temp? About to split from work and go surfing too. It's Indian summer in the bay area. Sunny, clean, and offshore winds, but the water is low fifties. Almost time to break out the 5/4. Looks like fun waves there.



tri7/5 -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 22:56:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

quote:

ORIGINAL: tri7/5

Now we all know that Area 51 doesn't actually exist because the government says so [:D]


On the day in 2002 when the contract at Kwajalein was awarded to a new company, I received six phone calls from recruiters. One was working for Raytheon, my employer at the time, but he was a contractor from Chicago. He read off the unclassified job description. Immediately I realized that the job was at Area 51. It had nothing to do with aircraft flight testing, or with space aliens either. The recruiter had no idea the job was at Area 51.

I said, "You don't want me." I told him my job title and salary. He replied that they had six openings at my level, the highest technical rank at Raytheon, and that my name had specifically been given to him by Raytheon top management.

I thought about it, looked up Las Vegas real estate on the web. I thought about getting up early every morning, driving to the airport, getting on the unmarked plane and flying north into the desert, only to return on the same plane that evening, or to spend the night at the less than stellar accommodations at the base if there was overtime work to be done. It was the only offer I seriously considered. In the end I decided to stay at Kwaj with the new contractor, having already negotiated an acceptable deal with them.

Here's the history of house prices in Las Vegas.

http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/las_vegas.html

I wasn't even thinking of the house price bubble when I made my decision. I ended up much better off financially to stay at Kwaj, and to buy my house in Austin for cash at the bottom of the recession in January 2009.

Besides, the sailing and diving were a lot better at Kwajalein than at Las Vegas.[:D]

RNJ


It would tough to turn it down just based on what it is. I mean how many people can really say they have worked there? Even just for a couple weeks then quit. I'm still amazed at how hush hush it is though and not one worker/officer/military brass has come forth to truly expose operations there. I wonder if it's one of those things where the government knows so much about you at that point that they would basically remove you and your family from existence so to speak should anyone think to do so.



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 14 2013 23:03:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

What is the water temp? About to split from work and go surfing too. It's Indian summer in the bay area. Sunny, clean, and offshore winds, but the water is low fifties. Almost time to break out the 5/4. Looks like fun waves there.


78-82 F.

I dove in a spandex skin or a very thin fleece lined suit, just to keep from getting scratched up. After an hour in the water you were ready for a surface interval in the 86 F air and sunshine. The only time you got cold was in a thunderstorm on the surface: cool downdrafts and cold rain.

When Bill Curtsinger and Emory Kristof from National Goegraphic came through on the way to Rongerik, I persuaded them to give a slide show for the Scuba Club. Curtsinger made fun of us for diving "technicolor reefs in bathtub temperatures." His show was photos from under the ice in Antarctica. Eerily beautiful.

I couldn't get Curtsinger to take off his shirt to show the club the scars from the grey reef shark attack. My regular buddy and I took them diving. The scars were pretty spectacular.

Nobody had lived on Rongerik or dove there since the Marshallese were evacuated due to bomb test fallout 40 years before. The ecosystem had reverted to a wild state. That's why Curtsinger and Kristof wanted to go.

When Wes Skiles came back through Kwaj from being with the Nat Geo guys, I asked,

"What about grey sharks?" They grow to about 6 feet when they mature.

"Hundreds of them on every ocean side dive. Hundreds. Silvertips too. Sometimes they blocked the sun."

Silvertips grow to 8 or 9 feet.

"How did Bill do with all those sharks?"

"He's a pro."

50s F is too cold!

RNJ



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 15 2013 0:11:26)

quote:

Bill, my parents are in town, and I took them to TeePee last night. I actually wanted to take them to Rositas, but got overruled. TeePee is another very old TexMex kind of place.


I have been to the TeePee several times over the years, Miguel, and I agree it is a good one. (If I recall correctly, it is located at 48th St. and Indian School in Phoenix, or close thereby.) It was actually established decades ago by Tony and Anna Duran, who were friends of our family. I don't know if it is still in the Duran family or not, but I would rate it highly. Rosita's, however, is still my all-time favorite.

Cheers,

Bill



Richard Jernigan -> [Deleted] (Oct. 15 2013 0:41:47)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Oct. 15 2013 2:18:11



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 15 2013 0:48:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tri7/5

It would tough to turn it down just based on what it is. I mean how many people can really say they have worked there? Even just for a couple weeks then quit. I'm still amazed at how hush hush it is though and not one worker/officer/military brass has come forth to truly expose operations there. I wonder if it's one of those things where the government knows so much about you at that point that they would basically remove you and your family from existence so to speak should anyone think to do so.


I vaguely recollect a few people who had worked at Area 51 reminiscing in public. Of the maybe two dozen super secret "black" projects I was ever "read in" to, only one was unknown to me before I officially got involved. It was run at the highest levels of the Departments of Defense and State.

It makes a lot more popular TV to rag on about how super secret Area 51 is, to drive around in a Jeep until the security guards come out to politely warn you, to stand on a hilltop miles away and record fuzzy video through the heat waves, and to talk about wild rumors, than it would be to simply state the facts, many of which are pretty well known.

There are a lot of things where the official position is "no comment" or outright denial, but you can find out quite a bit about them by asking around.

Heads of major intelligence agencies even lie to Congress about them.

RNJ



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 15 2013 3:45:12)

Secret flight testing of highly classified aircraft are among the "black" projects that have been ongoing at Area 51 for decades. And there have been some declassified documents that refer to it. For example, the A-12 reconaissance aircraft, which was the successor to the U-2 and precurser to the SR-71 (SR for Strategic Reconaissance) aircraft was flight tested at Area 51. although the SR-71 itself may not have been flight tested at Area 51, with some modifications it was nearly identical to the A-12 which had been flight-tested at the site. There were minor differences between the two, but the main difference between the A-12 and SR-71 was the SR-71 could carry more imaging gear. Also, the A-12 belonged to the CIA and the SR-71 belonged to the Air Force.

My own opinion about why Area 51 has acquired such a mystique among conspiracy theorists is its location in Nevada and the Southwest. (It certainly doesn't have any mystique to anyone who has been involved in, or worked with, the intelligence community.) It seems that Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and to an extent Texas are breeding grounds for certain types who see something sinister in anything that is secret, government-related, and who maintain a vague (and sometimes not-so-vague) anti-government attitude. Nothing is as it seems; everything has sinister overtones. And if one attempts to offer a rational explanation, that just proves that one is part of the conspiracy. For if that were not the case, why would one be trying to cover it up?

In any case, tomorrow Marta and I are taking the Grand Canyon Railroad from Williams (about 35 miles west of Flagstaff) to the Grand Canyon and back. Should be a great trip, as the aspen up here are turning to gold. The canopy of leaves in a grove of aspen looks just like liquid gold. The trip takes two hours each way, with a two to three hour stay at the South Rim of the canyon. The South Rim is not as spectacular as the North rim, which is 1,000 Ft. higher in elevation (7,000 Ft. vs. 8,000 Ft.), but it should make for an interesting day.

Cheers,

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 16 2013 1:32:24)

quote:

My own opinion about why Area 51 has acquired such a mystique among conspiracy theorists is its location in Nevada and the Southwest. (It certainly doesn't have any mystique to anyone who has been involved in, or worked with, the intelligence community.) It seems that Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and to an extent Texas are breeding grounds for certain types who see something sinister in anything that is secret, government-related, and who maintain a vague (and sometimes not-so-vague) anti-government attitude. Nothing is as it seems; everything has sinister overtones. And if one attempts to offer a rational explanation, that just proves that one is part of the conspiracy. For if that were not the case, why would one be trying to cover it up?


Well, it all stems from the stupid Roswell incident in 1947. At first the airforce colonel thought he found pieces of a wrecked space craft and it was printed in the media. Then a big retraction and "cover up" of the thing. How could he confuse for a stupid weather balloon what he saw? And he wasn't simply fired and reprimanded for making it up or making the mistake? It was all very fishy and should have been handled better from the start. They have a stupid UFO museum in Roswell and I saw it... they have map of the Earth and for every place someone came to visit from, a thumb tack marks the city. Pretty much the entire planet has visited that stupid place. [:D]



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 16 2013 2:51:07)

quote:

Well, it all stems from the stupid Roswell incident in 1947.


No doubt the Roswell nonsense had a lot to do with it, Ricardo. But that so many people are so gullible and so ready to believe any piece of hyped nonsense still amazes me.

On topic again, Today we rode the Grand Canyon Railroad from Williams AZ to the Grand Canyon and back, with a three hour stay at the South Rim. To really appreciate the Canyon one needs at least two full days, and more if one hikes down the Canyon. Nevertheless, the train trip alone was worth the cost, as it passes through some beautiful country.

Cheers,

Bill



estebanana -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 16 2013 4:10:00)

Bill,
You started this alien thing...[:D] in your first post.

I saw the Grand Canyon for 20 minutes when I peered over the edge one on my way to Texas in 1992. I also rode the Disneyland Grand Canyon train when I was a little one.

How does the big red trench look today?



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 16 2013 14:15:36)

quote:

Bill, You started this alien thing... in your first post.

I saw the Grand Canyon for 20 minutes when I peered over the edge one on my way to Texas in 1992. I also rode the Disneyland Grand Canyon train when I was a little one. How does the big red trench look today?


By describing our visit to the Meteor Crater near Flagstaff I couldn't help referring to the Apollo astronaut training, which led to the belief among some that the Moonwalk was a hoax filmed there. And that led to aliens, which led to Area 51, the A-12, and the SR-71. I was referring to my own tendency to wander "Off-Off Topic" when in my last post I wrote, "On topic again." I need direction!

The Grand Canyon is one of the world's great natural wonders. One could sit in the same spot, looking at the same view of the Canyon all day and not get bored. The reason is the Canyon's light, shadows, colors, and just about every sensory aspect changes with the time of day and track of the sun. The scene you viewed at 8:00 AM is very different from the one at 12:00 Noon, even though you are looking at the same stretch of the Canyon.

Cheers,

Bill



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 16 2013 19:17:18)

Viewing the Grand Canyon:

Our Boston Terrier was a well-traveled dog. By 1951 when we moved from Alaska to Washington DC he was seven years old. He had been in about 20 US states, 2 Canadian provinces, the Yukon and Northwest Territories, and Alaska.

He loved to ride in the car, which is the way he had done all his travels, except for a voyage from Alaska to Seattle aboard ship.

Rarely enough for it to catch us off guard, he was impulsive. We arrived at the Grand Canyon overlook with the car windows rolled down. He bolted out the window, raced to where the crowd was gathered at the guard rail, poked his head between people's legs and surveyed the scene below, as had been his custom at the ship's rail.

The Canyon was too much for him. He retreated promptly to the car, his short tail firmly down, and urgently requested to be let back in to the safety of his place in the back seat.

I've had several British and European clients who visited the USA, combining business with a bit of tourism. I have never heard anyone complain of being disappointed by the Grand Canyon. Last time I was there we did the North Rim, staying overnight at the rustic lodge. Fond memories....

RNJ



BarkellWH -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 19 2013 21:24:41)

Left Flagstaff and the Arizona High Country Thursday and arrived in Phoenix, where we are staying with a long-time friend until Sunday, when we move to the Mission Palms Hotel in Tempe, adjacent to Arizona State University. The Mid-October weather is beautiful in Phoenix, with comfortably warm days and cool nights.

Coincidently, on our final day in Flagstaff, I visited a bookstore near Northern Arizona University and found a book entitled, "Area 51: An Uncensored History of America's Top Secret Military Base." The author is Annie Jacobsen, and it was published in 2011. According to the back cover blurb, Ms. Jacobsen's work is based on "unprecedented access to seventy-four military and intelligence personnel who served on the base." Should be interesting. We shall see.

Cheers,

Bill



guitarbuddha -> RE: Rambling Around Arizona (Oct. 19 2013 23:46:40)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH



In any case, tomorrow Marta and I are taking the Grand Canyon Railroad from Williams (about 35 miles west of Flagstaff) to the Grand Canyon and back. Should be a great trip, as the aspen up here are turning to gold. The canopy of leaves in a grove of aspen looks just like liquid gold. The trip takes two hours each way, with a two to three hour stay at the South Rim of the canyon. The South Rim is not as spectacular as the North rim, which is 1,000 Ft. higher in elevation (7,000 Ft. vs. 8,000 Ft.), but it should make for an interesting day.


Bill



Sounds simply wonderful. I love to travel by rail. And overnight rail is about as romantic as can be.

I have never visited America. The closest I have come is in the company of Bill Bryson .... the honorary limey.

But boy I would love to love to take myself and my bicycle to America one day and abandon a month or so to it's highways.

And to spend weeks on end without sight of a city or a corporate eatery.

D.



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