Ricardo -> RE: Where do I start? (Oct. 17 2013 7:04:39)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cookieshoes quote:
ORIGINAL: n85ae I'd have to disagree with this, if you can write it that doesn't mean it's theory it simply means that you have noted what was done, or is to be done. There doesn't need to be any theory behind it. quote:
If you can put it on sheet music, that's theory. Meter and Rhythm are foundational elements of music theory, plain and simple. You can write out any Compas using sheet music. That is theory. Were the Compas in Flamenco originally created using theory exercises? Of course they weren't. But that doesn't change the fact that we can learn any compas we want by simply writing it out first, and then playing it by reading the notation. Is it better to listen to a player, when it comes to things like "feel"? Of course. But that is neither here nor there when you're talking about the actual elements of what you're trying to do. The elements are explained with....wait for it....theory. What is not theory-based are things like Sabicas' particular touch/tone, or the timbre or inflection in the voice of Camaron de la Isla. You can't write those things out, you have no choice but to hear them yourself. But for things like rhythm and meter, you can tie them back to theory, because that's where those elements fall, whether the original composers or players ever used them that way or thought of them that way. It's like observing a culture who can speak a language that they taught themselves, and because nobody else knows the language but them, it's their own thing. But that doesn't mean we can't still say that they are using "words" and "sentences" and "syntax". And eventually we can break that language down and learn it, using those core concepts. Those things are as inherent to language, just as music theory is to concepts like rhythm and time signatures, which are what Compas are. As I said, of course the Flamenco Masters didn't approach it from the classical side of theory. Neither does the average kid learning the electric guitar. Doesn't change that what they are doing is still possible to tie back to theory. Technically, yes it can be done. That is to say, one could learn compas if it so happened to be written "correctly" on paper...and the reader was competent at reading what ever method was used. I would like to add that every "theory" class I have ever attended or read about horribly skimps on timing issues. I would say every student of "theory" first take some YEARS of marching drums to cover those bases as far as "reading" is concerned. So we assume a competent student wants to learn flamenco compas from paper this way. Well, it turns out to be fantastically INEFFICIENT as a method of learning. Perhaps if already did the flamenco equivalent of the marching drum line, which is YEARS of dance classes learning all the rudiments and rhythmic language (yes it is a "language" whether you are in an american drum line, indian Konokal class flamenco dance class or whatever, it's verbal), then the written scores could be used. As flamenco exists currently it is NOT written in a "rudimentary" system or manner that all or most can agree on. In fact you will have top players and readers DISAGREEING on where the freakin "one" should occur in a bar. No joke, its f u k ed up big time. THere is a good reason it is messed up too, and it all leads to the same point everyone is making all along, you SHOULD NOT approach learning compas this way. The reason is not about where you are born or who you hang with, or how cool you are because you are more or less gypsy. The reason is that different musics come from different DISCIPLINES. As hard as you might try to learn a certain style of music via a different discipline (such as bulerias compas written in a classical guitar style score, or a jazz chart form), it simply will never be any where near as effective a learning method as the ORIGINAL discipline the music was created from. The proof is in the pudding, just look around. Classical musicians complain, "i can't improvise..."....well, it is not part of the discipline of learning music so why would they? Jazz comping master that can play charts at sight, can't sight read Bach chorals. Different discipline. Flamenco has a "school" and rather than try to circumvent the system, it is so much easier to just suck it up go through the normal training process. Why try to reverse engineer compas by deciphering half a dozen different written scores, all supposedly of the SAME piece of music, only after some years of discarding the bad and keeping the good, arrive a concept of "compas" distorted at best? When you can just sit with a maestro or group of flamencos and learn in properly in a few minutes? Too many try the scores and end up UN LEARNING more than they ever should have to. In fact it can be much harder and even disheartening to erase the mistakes. It is worth it to develop a solid BASE for compas as a beginner....it almost never happens with scores on a stand with "flamenco metronome" close by. It DOES happen very fast in a dance class, or with a group of flamencos that are practicing their art. So fast that it seems totally in vain to argue a case for any other inefficient method as being an acceptable alternative. IMO
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