How long before face changes colour? (Full Version)

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britguy -> How long before face changes colour? (Sep. 30 2013 19:30:15)

I have a few older guitars and a few newer ones. Most of them have spruce faces, but the colour is not always the same. The older guitars have much nicer coloured faces, more mature somehow. Slightly darker and deeper than the newer guitars. Although I suspect that originally the colours were probably very similar?

What factors influence the colour change on guitars? Is it purely age, or do different woods age differently. Do French-polished guitars deepen in colour differently from lacquered ones?

My three newer instruments are all under three years old. They all have French-polished, light, 'natural' colour faces. I was wondering how long it may take before the colour starts to deepen, and become more like the older instruments?

Or maybe they might not?

Any thoughts???



constructordeguitarras -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Sep. 30 2013 22:28:11)

Oxidation of the wood causes change in color. Most woods darken with age; walnut is the only one I know of that lightens with age. Light may be involved in the oxidation process, or one of the oxidation processes.

I have worked in cabinet shops where a stack of parts for a cabinet had to be arranged carefully so that a part on top that didn't completely cover the part underneath would not leave a silhouette on the bottom one by blocking the light.

Many things can act as antioxidants (as we know from "health foods" these days) and some finishes have UV light absorbers, so these properties of finishes probably influence the darkening rate.



guitarbuddha -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Sep. 30 2013 22:36:07)

How long before face changes colour ?


Well with your complection I'd keep the hat.

D.



guitarbuddha -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Sep. 30 2013 22:43:05)

Sorry, I just love stupid jokes.

D.



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 0:22:13)

They change color right away, but you can't tell unless you mask part of it a then remove the mask two weeks later.

Ultraviolet spectrum hits the wood and oxidizes it. It's basically like giving wood a suntan. Leave your guitars out in the room for a few months and they will get darker. Put a guitar in a closet with a UV lamp for a week and it will look like it got 40 years of age in oxidation.



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 0:49:57)

quote:

Well with your complection I'd keep the hat.


"Sorry, I just love stupid jokes. "

That's O.K. sweetie; I enjoy dumb jokes also. But it was a serious question.

And you're right; my pasty Limey complEXION does require wearing a hat when out in the open; which I do all the time. I've already had my problems with skin cancer. . .



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 0:58:32)

quote:

Put a guitar in a closet with a UV lamp for a week and it will look like it got 40 years of age in oxidation.


Very interesting. . .

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?



C. Vega -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 2:24:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?



It's standard procedure for many violin makers.
It's frequently used to darken the raw wood before varnishing and also during the varnishing process because the UV light accelerates the drying speed of some varnishes.
Do a Google search for "UV cabinet for violin making" or something similar. There's lots of info out there on making a simple cabinet, the best tubes to use, etc.



guitarbuddha -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 2:47:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

That's O.K. sweetie;



So I'm sweet am I ?

Well if the hat fits......

D.



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 3:20:18)

quote:

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?


Yes, you have to be very careful, you could over heat a guitar and crack it or warp it. Personally I would let time to it's work and be happy with what you got.

Leaving a guitar out in the open on a stand for six months in the living room, not direct sunlight, will do a hell of a lot to change it's color. Unless the guitar is orange.



akatune -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 4:00:43)

Uh oh.
Should We keep it in the case?



gerundino63 -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 9:05:44)

Just put it in the open in your room and with a year it is much darker.

One note.....UV. Type A will color the guitar and goes trough glass.
So if you get the urge to put it in direct sunlight in your beautiful orchard, it is not nessesary and dangerous for the guitar.


Here a picture from my two Anders Eliasson.
One new and one in the open (not in direct sunlight) just in the room for 4 years.......



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



el carbonero -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 10:13:52)

an orange conde never change



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 13:06:33)

quote:

Personally I would let time to it's work and be happy with what you got.


Actually, I'm quite happy with what I've got. Have no intention of risking a good stable instrument by trying to play around with the colour of the face.

Just asking out of curiosity. One reason being that I have another (custom) guitar that's about eight years old and the face is still very pale. This one is lacquered, not French Polished. I was wondering if this made any difference?



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 13:29:30)

quote:

Uh oh.
Should We keep it in the case?


Keep it out of the case if you like, where you live it should be fine. But do what Gerundino says, keep it out of direct sunlight.

With the top on your guitar is will get a beautiful gold brown a few years. It will only get better looking as time goes by.



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 13:35:16)

quote:

Just asking out of curiosity. One reason being that I have another (custom) guitar that's about eight years old and the face is still very pale. This one is lacquered, not French Polished. I was wondering if this made any difference?


Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar.



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 13:46:06)

quote:

an orange conde never change


Ever heard of punctuation?



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 17:01:23)

quote:

Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar


Really! I had my very first flamenco lessons in Madrid in the late '50's. But I'd never aspire to anything like the "Emperador" ( you kidding?) Hotel, or the celebrated Jernigan Suite. ( My level was a cheap 3rd. floor walk-up pensione on Calle de Atocha - food not bad, waitress very cute, wine was $%^*ing awful!)

But . . . . to get an extra discount AND a free drink, courtesy of C.Vega, WOW. Maybe it's worth another trip? Hasta luego. . . . .



BarkellWH -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 19:12:06)

quote:

Well if you ever make it to Madrid go to the Emperador Hotel and ask for the Jernigan Suite. Put the guitar in the special UV sauna bath in the Jernigan Suite known as "La Salon de Oxidacion."

Tell them C . Vega sent you for an extra discount and a free drink ticket in the bar.


You forgot to mention one of the prime benefits of staying in the Jernigan Suite, Stephen. Aside from having your own personal valet, you also get a free genealogical run-up to determine if your family lineage goes back to Charles Martel and Charlemagne.

Cheers,

Bill



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 20:20:39)

quote:

You forgot to mention one of the prime benefits of staying in the Jernigan Suite, Stephen.


Don't take him TOO seriously, Bill. He's just enjoying his favourite pastime of "faulking" around. . .

(Strictly no pun intended !).



BarkellWH -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 20:26:58)

quote:

(Strictly no pun intended !).


On the contrary, Britguy, that was very punny.

Cheers,

Bill



britguy -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 1 2013 20:32:23)

quote:

Here a picture from my two Anders Eliasson.
One new and one in the open (not in direct sunlight) just in the room for 4 years.......


That's a very interesting picture. I really like the darker colour.

You can really see the difference four years of natural age and U/V exposure has made to the colour of the face.

Thanks. . .



constructordeguitarras -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 2 2013 2:25:27)

quote:

Might there be any negative effects on the instrument if one tries this procedure?


Indeed: It might dry out, crack, and catch fire. I did something similar once (trying to reduce the doming of a guitar's soundboard by placing a small lamp inside for 10 minutes while weighting the bridge).



estebanana -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 2 2013 12:25:53)

quote:

I did something similar once (trying to reduce the doming of a guitar's soundboard by placing a small lamp inside for 10 minutes while weighting the bridge).


Yeah you can't get distracted when you do that....DAMHIK ( don't ask me how I know) LOL



Ricardo -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 2 2013 13:37:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el carbonero

an orange conde never change





At least not since the late 1700's.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 2 2013 22:47:27)

Ah, well, I'm glad I'm not the only one who learns the hard way.



gbv1158 -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 3 2013 12:12:34)

quote:

an orange conde never change


....too many "orange-s" on wood! :-)

ciao
giambattista



guitarbuddha -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 3 2013 12:53:45)

quote:

How long before face changes colour?


Actually you probably shouldn't be holding your breath.

D.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: How long before face changes colour? (Oct. 24 2013 22:04:12)

I just got an email from Stew-Mac with a link to this video. Maybe you all did, too, but I think it is relevant to this discussion.




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