New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Full Version)

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constructordeguitarras -> New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 11 2013 16:30:54)

Since last December I have had finger problems from excessive guitar making that have severely affected my guitar playing. I think it is a combination of arthritis and tendonitis. I don't go to physicians for things like this due to past experiences. My problem has been that my left middle finger and right ring finger won't bend all the way when I try to close my hand as in a fist. The left finger gives me particular trouble when I try to play the guitar. There is also pain associated with this condition.

I discovered something called a STEP DOWN SPLINT which is used to gradually, step by step, get the finger to bend again. I used one on my left finger last night for the first time and experienced dramatic results. This morning my finger could bend further and there was no pain when I pressed on it from the fingertip end the way there has been. I wore it overnight while I was sleeping. At first I tried to do both hands at the same time, and I tried to push them too far initially and it was painful. So I went to one finger and pushed it lightly with the splint, and it works. I think Anders mentioned that he has a similar condition and I hope he is reading.

Here is a picture of the device, which is manufactured by 3-Point Products Inc and which I bought from www.protherapysupplies.com



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estebanana -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 14 2013 1:51:51)

Keep us up on your progress. I have noticed my hands a fingers have become duro because of guitar making. I have trouble doing abanico rasgueado as powerfully as I used to.

My difficulty is with bending the scraper to get a good curve to make some kinds of scraping draws over the wood. That has really made my right hand thumb sensitive.

PS I hope that is not your lady like hand in the photo, that hand does not make guitars. [;)]



alcazaba -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 19 2013 2:09:12)

Guitar making is not very good for fingers. I cut a extensor tendon in my left hand with a chisel, that came back to work slowly. Playing guitar was my physical therapy (the only one i could afford)



constructordeguitarras -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 19 2013 3:24:04)

Sometimes I find that playing the guitar is good therapy for my fingers too.



RobJe -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 13:25:17)

quote:

Sometimes I find that playing the guitar is good therapy for my fingers too.


I would encourage you all to look after your fingers. I guess the state of mine is mainly due to osteoarthritis but I think that I could have been more careful. At one stage I had to play for 30 minutes before a gig to get my fingers to swell so that the fluid round the joints cushioned them and reduced the pain. Too late now!



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jshelton5040 -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 14:17:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe


I would encourage you all to look after your fingers. I guess the state of mine is mainly due to osteoarthritis but I think that I could have been more careful. At one stage I had to play for 30 minutes before a gig to get my fingers to swell so that the fluid round the joints cushioned them and reduced the pain. Too late now!



Wow! Your hand looks as old and worn out as mine. My arthritis reached a point that I couldn't bend the fingers tight enough on the left hand to play guitar so I switched to classical piano. The piano seems to have done wonders for my fingers so that now I can play guitar well enough for testing and setup although it's not much fun to play with no fingernails.



Ruphus -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 15:55:08)

Rob,

Funny; I just dusted off and wear an old titan watch that looks pretty similar to yours. ( After not having worn any watch for many years.) But I guess we are being very unfashionable. These day you ought to wear ugly bulks that look like from Neadertal.

Your hands look as if they were demanding to see less protein consumption.
Cold cuts, steaks and roasts maybe prohibited.

Then again, who knows.

I am struggling agianst problems with my right hand as well, which I had never thought of to occure. ( Unsure whether FD or maybe splinter in the joint.)
Youngsters may hear more of such so that they can be preventive.

Had I known I would had refrained from years of heavy break testing. ... Wait. - Actually I remember at the beginning already to have been told of aged karate masters who couldn´t bend their fingers and needed to bath them in warm oil first.
Should have spent attention as a teenager.

What a horror for a lover of the guitar to possibly become unable of fully using his hands. ... Really, man ... Horror!

Wishing everyone of us to stay out of such special misery!

Ruphus



RobJe -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 18:21:02)

I eat more fish than meat! The watch is 1990s Seiko.
I think that better and more relaxed technique would have helped me.
In my early playing years (60s and 70s) amplification was very rare - big theatre - just get more guitarists! I learned to play very loud to be heard over the dancers.
Paco de Lucia's father wouldn't let him play for dancing in tablaos in order to preserve his son's hands. If only I had been a brilliant guitarist with a thoughtful father!
Rob



Ruphus -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 19:44:09)

This is interesting for me.
Never thought that a strong playing can cause damages. But obviously I have been overestimating the capacity of these limbs anyway.

Just for shizznizz; took a quick mobile photo of that Citizen from mid eighties, blured in the dark, but you get the idea.


Quite similar looking; innit?

Ruphus

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Ruphus -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 20 2013 19:53:39)

Ethan,

Sorry to spoil your thread!
If your problem be caused muscular, I could suggest simple isometric exercises that should then help pretty fast.

Ruphus



constructordeguitarras -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 28 2013 5:14:58)

Oh, you didn't spoil the thread; it's more interesting now.

I have used the splints a few nights and they helped get my fingers so they bend farther. When I tried to push the process faster it got too painful so I use them on and off.

I am able to play the guitar a lot more now than I was before, and playing the guitar seems to help my fingers a lot. So I am hopeful that I will recover even more.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 29 2013 20:40:22)

Ethan,

I´m glad you´ve found something that helps you with your finger problems. But it does look a bit painfull or at least annoying.

I´m having problems with a left hand finger as well. Arthritis. I stopped playing the guitar 1,5 years ago.
This spring, a foro member adviced me to try some herbal medicine called Shallaki. It has helped me a lot. You´re supposed to take a max of two capsulas a day, which i did in the start. I´m now down on 1 capsula every 2 days and I´m ok. It still hurts a bit when playing the guitar, so I dont play it, but I can play the fiddle, no problem. Also I dont have any problems when building and I try to work a wee bit slower and concéntrate on not stressing my fingers. (it doesnt make the the guitars worse to work slower)
Untill now, there´s been no side effects and the product is known to have no side effects. Something that farmaceutical products cannot live up to.



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tijeretamiel -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 29 2013 21:37:42)

Great to have you back Anders.



guitarbuddha -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 29 2013 22:50:33)

Hi Anders, good to see you.[:)]

I know I am always going on about Alexander Technique but here are some podcasts which might be interesting.

http://bodylearningcast.com/ra/

(RH stands for Rheumatiod Arthritis, couldn't find one for Osteo)

http://bodylearningcast.com/artists/

In particular the Woodworker/Toolmaker on the second link talks passionately and intelligently and has some real simple and excellent advice for using tools. I found that podcast a real treat and I know nothing about working with wood.

Give them a listen, food for thought.

Best to all.

D.



Leñador -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 4:36:21)

Ole Anders!



edguerin -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 8:54:54)

Welcome back Anders![:)]



gbv1158 -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 12:18:58)

Yes!
Great to have you back Anders!

ciao



estebanana -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 14:19:06)

quote:

Wow! Your hand looks as old and worn out as mine. My arthritis reached a point that I couldn't bend the fingers tight enough on the left hand to play guitar so I switched to classical piano. The piano seems to have done wonders for my fingers so that now I can play guitar well enough for testing and setup although it's not much fun to play with no fingernails.


Keep playing that piano John, that is some high class stuff. [;)]



constructordeguitarras -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 17:08:18)

Thanks, Anders. I'll try that stuff.

I think the way I messed up my hands is holding things too much and too tightly when making guitars. I saw a picture of a guitar you were french polishing held in a vise and I had never tried that--I always held on tight with one hand and polished with the other. Now I use a vise and one hand can totally relax. Similarly, I used to hold harmonic bars and back braces down on the edge of the workbench to plane curves on them; now I use a jig that I made to hold them.

But the damage is done. It is at least partly a tendon thing: If I bend the finger all the way by accident it gets stuck closed and has to be pried open with the other hand. Both the stuck state and the prying open hurt a lot. I've read that the tendon is swollen and so it gets stuck in the tunnel that it has to travel through. I also have arthritis in the joints. My hands are still pretty though.[:)]

I have no problem working, either. I forget about the fingers unless they keep getting stuck, in which case I tape them so they can't get closed all the way by accident.



johnnefastis -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 21:06:43)

Welcome back Anders !

So as someone who makes stuff and plays guitar but never made a guitar, I want to know the issues.
Obviously chisel and saw cuts are bad. I imagine scraping and bending are hard on the hands but I would like to hear
from you pros.

Hope your fingers all get better.

Cheers



guitarbuddha -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 21:33:31)

You seem to be describing acute tenosynavitis. Sometimes called trigger finger. You have a collagen build up near a swolen nodule on the synovium or tendon sheath (not the carpal tunnel).

Good news is that a full recovery can be mad from this naturally. Massage and ultrasound are also very good.

The errors of youth....... I once ripped the tendon on my arm off of the muscle doing pullups with my wrists at a right angle. God what an imbecile I am.

D.



johnnefastis -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 22:04:48)

quote:

I think the way I messed up my hands is holding things too much and too tightly when making guitars.


Sorry I can't read thanks for sharing this. If I ever try to build a guitar I will think about that.

Cheers



constructordeguitarras -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 22:06:45)

Thanks for your interest, D.

When I worked as a spray finisher on a moving line in a furniture factory for three years (until 2002) I had trigger finger--in my actual trigger finger that worked a big heavy spray gun for hours straight. That's when you try to uncurl your finger and it pops out fast even if you were trying to do it slowly. It got better when I stopped spray finishing.

When mine get stuck, I can only unstick them by wrenching them out with the other hand. So it's a bit different from trigger finger, though maybe related. But rest alone does not seem to be the cure now. Fortunately it's just one finger on each hand.



guitarbuddha -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Sep. 30 2013 22:17:27)

Did you check out those podcasts ?

You said 'I think the way I messed up my hands is holding things too much and too tightly when making guitars. '

and then ' But rest alone does not seem to be the cure'

It is often the case that when we spend a lot of the time holding onto things tensely we hold on with our whole body. And when the activity stops we hold onto some of this tension. This can be why rest alone doesn't work.

Like grinding your teeth whilst sleeping when under stress you can flex all of your body and put a strain on the hands. I used to do this and actually wore a resting splint during sleep to stop my wrists flexing.

In the end I had to learn to rest and sleep without tensing. Took time but in the end dealing with this root cause got rid of the symptoms (pain loss of coordination, clumsiness).

D.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 12 2013 3:42:22)

Update

I tried the step down splints for a few weeks and got only so far and it was painful to push them farther.

Then something wonderful happened: Ruphus taught me some muscle-lengthening exercises that had a big effect right away and are continuing to improve my fingers.

I can now play things on the guitar that I hadn't been able to play for many months due to the finger problems. I've gotten back a big part of my life, as playing the guitar has been the most constant thing in my life for the past 45 years. It is also easier to work making guitars, and not so difficult to do certain things any more, like tie my shoes and floss my teeth. And the pain has been all gone since I started the exercises.

I am sure that no M.D., in the USA at least, could or would have helped me so much.

Hurrah for our Ruphus!



Doitsujin -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 12 2013 22:11:00)

quote:

Here is a picture of the device, which is manufactured by 3-Point Products Inc and which I bought from www.protherapysupplies.com


Customers who have bougth that also bought:







and



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estebanana -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 13 2013 0:46:37)

Stop fussing around Doitscrewjin!



Ruphus -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 13 2013 10:47:21)

Thank you for the nice words, Ethan!


It makes me very happy to see you getting better.

The principle with this approach to muscular based pain and dysfunction, in view of positive feedback is so rewarding.
Watching people with severe problems, to a point in time treated with warmth, ointments, sometimes with fixation ( gipsum) and other times already appointed for surgery, recovering in a short time, is a true joy.

And in the same time it is another example for how information can get stuck.
Doctors in my family, or complete strangers who as physicians only got a notion of the method through their reconvalescent patients, were amazed ( suggesting me to open an office); yet, I don´t think any of them tried to figure out how to illuminate such approach to the academy.

Anyway.
Very glad about the positive outcome, :O)

Ruphus

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Doitsujin -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 13 2013 20:34:17)



Ban me!!!!

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Ruphus -> RE: New Hope for Luthiers' Fingers (Oct. 14 2013 0:21:30)

There is a way of life where the typical youth knows no humour, so they will force most ordinary rubbish that usually is being related to genitals. And as there is no seek given nor passion for anything there exists no occupation either. There exist not even locations for shallow spare time.

All of which making constantly feeling bored and looking for "entertainment", which again equals basically gloating over created misery. Creating secret traps for fellow men or more cowardly even abreacting sadistic demands on animals.
All in all a premise of poking sticks into eyes and let it be fun.

Hollow active being in order to disguise a blatant abscence of depth, of empathic emotions and of goals.
Does such ways feel familiar to you?

You could know that the agression that you feel is actually against yourself. Against a meaninglessness that is tracked in the unconsciousness.
Resulting from an attitude that will firmly do anything only not reflect.

Self-reflection and -education are for pussies, isn´t it, Doit?

Ruphus



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