Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Full Version)

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Kalo -> Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 18 2013 22:57:40)

Hi All,

Curious as to how anyone would feel if you were told this?

Scenario: Part time job, 20 hours a week, and semi care giving for my Parent's which is why I work part time!

However, in selling a few instruments, and getting settlement money from a last years automobilie accident (no fault of my own) I finally saved up more than enough money to buy a nice handmade flamenco guitar.

The problem: I am having a hard time in justifying why I need an expensive, handmade flamenco guitar!

I don't plan to go to Spain to study flamenco and I really have no ambition in wanting to perform out and try to make a living with flamenco guitar.

My plans are to continue studying flamenco guitar and to go from beginner/intermediate to advance! Make more youtube videos to just share with everyone [:D]

So, my question: Do, I really need to spend a big chunk of change to enjoy and progress in flamenco guitar?

I know our famous Rombsix proved that one doesn't have too! But, in my mind, I keep saying, "yeah, but you are not Rombsix" [:D]

If I had a full time job making lots of money, I think I wouldn't mind a nice instrument, but, the guilt of only being able to work part time and not wanting to go professional is making me hesitant.

Has anyone else felt the same as me!

I seem to OCD, about this to where I can't make up my mind.

Thanks,

Kalo



clevblue -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 18 2013 23:44:15)

If you feel playing Flamenco is the way you want to go with the guitar, then a good Flamenco guitar will make the job easier and sound better. You work hard obviously, and deserve it. Go for it. Contact Blair Russell, he's a luthier on here who makes beautiful guitars at what I consider to be a very reasonable price. Mine is fantastic. It's a personal recommendation and I have no connection with him other than loving the guitar I bought from him. You can see his guitars in the Luthier section.



rombsix -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 1:22:07)

quote:

I know our famous Rombsix proved that one doesn't have too! But, in my mind, I keep saying, "yeah, but you are not Rombsix"


[:D]

Having any guitar to play is better than having NO guitar to play. [:)]



Guitarsid -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 3:24:15)

I will offer my opinion as a player with 45 yr experience, yet a very inexperienced flamenco novice learner/player, mostly learner.
I have played in many groups and bands and playing has been a big part of my life. I have owned many guitars and have some that cost over $2000. They are the guitars that I love playing, and they are decidedly, the best I ever had.
quote:

Do, I really need to spend a big chunk of change to enjoy and progress in flamenco guitar?

I don't think you have to, but I think it will be worth it if you do.
I think you are young and I watched your video and I think you will have the ability to play flamenco very well, and hopefully also will for a long time in the future. I would recommend to you, yes, the sooner the better to get the very best instrument you can afford and keep it, and I believe that you will always be glad you did .



oc chuck -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 6:15:25)

Your Sevillanas recording on youtube sounds pretty good!

Can you find a used flamenco guitar in your area
through ebay or craigslist? Something close enough
for you to play before you buy.

A good guitar that you like will last a lifetime,
cheaper than cable is over the years.

What is your price range.



FlamencoD -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 7:36:44)

I think you want a nice guitar (like I did), but maybe don't need nor can afford or justify getting a guitar that costs $4,000 or more (also like me). My advice is to check with Ron Hudson and see what he can do for you to get a nice Francisco Navarro Concert blanca flamenco for a good price. I have one and love it. The other option is an Andy Culpepper 2a guitar (or one of the other luthiers on this board that make a 2a). Andy's 2a is $2,400 according to his website. Seems like a pretty good deal to me.



keith -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 12:59:01)

kalo, i would imagine most forum members are not professionals, myself included, nor will we become professionals--we play for the love of the music. that said, many of us own a good guitar that cost more than an average factory guitar. a good to great guitar definitely makes a big difference--in both playing and inspiration. obviously life situations and expenses play a role in how much one can spend but the rule of spending as much as one can afford is a good rule to live by.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 15:50:20)

Only you can make that decision and it should not be based on feelings like "is there a professional need" or "can i really afford it". Some professionals own dozens of top class guitars without really playing them and they don't feel guilty about that at all. I possess various top class flamenco guitars myself and the Gerundino haven't been touched for years. As a matter of fact, yesterday i run trough dozens of webcam recordings i made of myself during the last couple of years (most of them saving musical ideas or involving improvisation-sessions to find new ideas) and you know what, over 80% of them were played on my childhood triplex Ibanez (250 euro) and not on my Conde or the Gerundino (i simply graph the one that is closest to me because they all play and sound well enough). As long as there is a mic i even don't mind playing my triplex ibanez during concerts (generally i bring the one that sounds/feels the best at that very moment and i might very well favor my Ibanez over my concert Conde).

I must add that i am very lucky with that extremely cheap triplex Ibanez. It's from the early 70ties (the later ones are pretty unplayable) and it is equally hand friendly as my hand build flamenco guitars. It was hand picked by my father who happens to be an expert. I don't mind it sounds a bit less then my top class guitars because it is good enough (as a matter of fact with new strings it beats my top models when they have older strings).

Would i like to miss/sell my good guitars, no way, especially not my Ramirez who outclasses my Conde most of the time but was lend to my father until last week. Over the years i have started to value playability over a good sound and i can temporarily live with a lesser sound but not with a guitar that kills my hands (no matter how good it sounds). One of the characteristics of professionals is that they reconciles with the limitations of themself and the instrument and do not invest energy in what is (temporary) not there.

To buy or not to buy?... only you can make that decision. The fact you plan to spend some serious time with your instrument in order to develop from "beginner/intermediate" to "advanced" seems more then enough reason to own/play a good instrument. The absent of professionalism is no issue since professionals spend most of there time playing at home as well and most people in the audience can't tell the difference anyway. Lack of income isn't a good excuse as well, unless you fear you might need that extra money later on to cover unexpected bills.

There is only 1 good reason to buy yourself a good guitar and that is to please yourself (you work hard enough to earn it....full time, half of which is payed). If you really fall in love with a guitar and (temporary) have the money to buy it just go for it, but make sure it is indeed a good one that outclasses your present one and/or can be sold for the same price or more later on. My father (who at the time had no penny to spend and on top was expecting me within mounts) lend 1000,- dutch guilders in 1962 from his father in law in order to buy himself a superb classical Ramirez guitar. At the time it was the equivalent of a year salary. The only thing he regrets is that he hardly ever played it. It sounds overwhelming to the player (and in big concert halls) but not to a student sitting in front of it (he spend 40 hours a week teaching). So he bought himself a cheap Ibanez as well for daily use. Since it was pretty good he used it for his own studies as well, saving the Ramirez for concerts only. So even professionals can live with playing a (well chosen) 400 euro guitar, even when they posses one of the best guitars imaginable. If you buy your self a guitar, make sure it is a good one (my 1985 media luna conde has badly drilled string holes and a student of my father received one with badly placed frets so don't trust big names on there blue eyes). It should play like a dream and sound as good as possible and really must make a difference with your present guitar.



Kalo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 16:45:38)

Wow, I've read each response!

I just want to thank EVERYONE for their input!

Looks like most on the foro feel that investing in a quality instrument is a good way to go!!!

I guess it is because student/guitarist/professional know the importance of the investment, especially when one is SERIOUS about practicing.

I sought advice from a friend who does not play an instrument!

His Advice: If you're just going to TINKER around in your bedroom all day and not play out or even got to Spain to advance, then you're wasting your money [8|]

Funny how non musicians think that investing money in a good instrument is a waste of MONEY, especially if one choose not to make a living out of it.

To be honest, I don't want to make a living out of it playing music. I don't know why some of my friends and family member think that is wrong!!!

So many times I was accused of wasting my life! Well playing music gives me so much joy!!!

As one musician said to put it, study guitar is better than watching TV all day long and drinking beer [:D]

Again, I appreciate everyone's input!

Kalo



johnnefastis -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 17:24:50)

Yeah do it, you will love it and want to play more. Just don't crazy after big names, etc and you will find something really nice.

You will save money on new strings as they seem to sound good for longer on nice guitar.

Cheers



flamencositar -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 17:49:59)

Why get something from Spain and pay the Spain premium? Spain is no longer the be all and end all of flamneco guitars. Great makers in Spain, sure, but great makers in alot of other places that are just as great!
Culpepper makes guitars under 3k , Navarro does as well, Castillo does (just talk to him and get a nice discount), etc... Navarro makes a good student model well under 1k, etc... These 3 builders are fantastic builders. 2 Mexicans and a Gringo somehwere upstate New York.
If you want a nice sounding guitar, do it for yourself and yourself alone. Haters gonna hate, so just brush that aside and do what makes you happy. If it's on cheap Ibanez or broom handle and some rubber bands, make that music my friend!!



Erik van Goch -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 17:58:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: johnnefastis

You will save money on new strings as they seem to sound good for longer on nice guitar.

Cheers


The Gerundino we own is "dynamite" for 1 day only on brand new base strings. After 1 day it demands perfect input as well, something neither me or my father can give it. Paco Peña can but if i'm not mistaken even he used to replace base strings for each solo concert (sponsored by D'Addario).



flyhere -> [Deleted] (Aug. 19 2013 18:09:27)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jan. 21 2014 22:19:41



Kalo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 19:01:15)

Hi Guys,

Well, what I meant by Spain...

Wasn't buying a guitar from Spain...

I was told by a friend that if I don't plan on GOING to Spain to STUDY, that I would be wasting money on a nice handbuilt guitar.

I also know there are tons of great luthiers from Parracho...

I did own a Franisco Navarro Student flamenco that I had to sell.

I understand the Reye FN model is decent, I played my friends and didn't quite care for it...

So, I am highly thinking of our luthiers here on the forum!

Kalo



tijeretamiel -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 19:07:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalo

However, in selling a few instruments, and getting settlement money from a last years automobilie accident (no fault of my own) I finally saved up more than enough money to buy a nice handmade flamenco guitar.

The problem: I am having a hard time in justifying why I need an expensive, handmade flamenco guitar!


Personally, if I had doubt towards something like this I wouldn't be up for going ahead with it, be it buying a guitar or something else.

I'm not saying don't go ahead with buying a nice handmade guitar but I'd wait until I was certain about the decision.

If you are to buy a guitar and you have some doubt, buy a second hand guitar as then if you are to sell you're not likely to lose too much if you are resell the guitar.

Personally if I was you, I would go ahead and get a 'nice' guitar (which is open to interpretation). Life's too short to hold back on things which which provide great pleasure, and the delights of a wonderful flamenco guitar are something special.

***
There was a Stephen Faulk blanca in the classifieds for $2k a few weeks ago. Now and again crazy deals like that come along.



Guitarsid -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 19:09:08)

quote:

So, I am highly thinking of our luthiers here on the forum!

I think that is a very nice option. I have heard some of them on utube videos and they were topnotch sounding, plus you get to choose all the details as you prefer.



Kalo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 19:50:05)

quote:

originally tijeretamiel: Personally, if I had doubt towards something like this I wouldn't be up for going ahead with it, be it buying a guitar or something else.


To be honest, I came from Rock Guitar world. All my guitars where cheaper models.

As long as the neck was straight, I could lower the action, I NEVER had a problem with learning. I NEVER wanted a $4000 Paul Reed Smith, etc.

I was happy with my $200 silver tone Les Paul guitar and or my $450.00 mexican strat.

I wish it was like this with Flamenco Guitar!

The Franisco Navarro Student flamenco was nice, but, after a while I was wishing for something better.

This might now sound to nice, but, I noticed that if I D'addario strings on my Student Navarro the guitar didn't as good (tone wise) like when I put a more expesensive brand.

The feel of the Student model was nice, but, when I played my friends $3k guitar that he purchased HANDMADE from Spain, OMG, the neck felt totally different....Easier then the Navarro and comfortable!

I hope I don't get scorned for this, but, I tried a Cordoba GK blanca and well, it's not a traditional flamenco guitar, but, that guitar felt nice in my hand.

I know, it is a factory made piece of junk, but, it wasn't bad for the price.

However, a friend told me if I were to get this guitar, I would loose in the long run. The resale value is horrible on them.

I also know of somone who would be selling a Yamaha CGX 171scf and at least that has a traditional 52mm nut...It has goose neck pick ups and well the guitar it self might be kind of fun, till deciede on what route to go...

I also know the resale value is pretty good on those guitars...

Any how I am just babbling at this point, more than likely, handmade will probably be my option.

Kalo



pink -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 20:49:47)

Hi Kalo
Life is short, if you love to play guitar and would like the guitar that you have only before been able to dream of but now can grasp then let that smile be part of each and every day. Buy the one you wold like....how sad would it be to go without when you can hold and play the guitar you've always hoped for. DON'T feel guilty ...do it and enjoy it...Live!!
Best to you

pink

Edit
Please forgive my earlier misspelling of your member name!!!!



mark indigo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 19 2013 23:31:49)

whatever you decide, you must play it before handing over cash.

I have two luthier made flamenco guitars that I am looking to sell.

I have one cheapo flamenco guitar that is my travel guitar. I like it more than the two luthier made guitars even though it sounds cheap and trashy...

and I recently paid out what I paid for the first two guitars put together for a top big name flamenco guitar that is, regardless of the name, totally out of this world. I can already feel that it is changing my playing for the better. It feels amazing. It sounds incredible. It is a joy to play every day.

You need one of these! Everyone needs one of these! Go for it![:)]



Kalo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 20 2013 1:38:43)

quote:

whatever you decide, you must play it before handing over cash.


From what I understand, if one keeps the specs traditional as they are getting a handmade guitar, then you can return in three days if you dislike.

quote:

and I recently paid out what I paid for the first two guitars put together for a top big name flamenco guitar that is, regardless of the name, totally out of this world. I can already feel that it is changing my playing for the better. It feels amazing. It sounds incredible. It is a joy to play every day.


I totally hear you, just because it is handmade doesn't mean it's going to be better than a cheap guitar. I guess it all depends on who made the guitar and the reputation of the luthier.

Do you mind sharing what guitar you recently purchased that you like better than your two handmade luthier guitars?

Kalo



Ricardo -> RE: Good Guitar/Ability/Future (Aug. 20 2013 2:10:15)

Make sure to do your research and that the instrument you buy CAN be resold and you don't lose money if you do give up on practicing. Lower and middle lower end guitars tend to not go up in value. Brand spanking new unknown luthiers are a gamble. Check and see what used ones go for. None around? I would avoid unless you are just a serious player and love the sound and quality. Anybody can start a trend IMO.

I will admit almost ANY new guitar can be an inspiration to continue playing, regardless of value in the market. The plus side of that is that every instrument I have seen that was played with lots of love and inspiration actually shapes up over time into a great sound. Even cheap "beater" guitars can sound good if they get love. Might not mean you make money on em if you sell em but it shows they have value for sure.

Of course it is sad when a guitar with fantastic pedagree and potential just sits in the closet for years...but if it is sold and the owner made a profit and the new owner brings it to life, then everybody wins.
Ricardo



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