alzapua thumb (Full Version)

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SLJ -> alzapua thumb (Jul. 17 2013 14:50:29)

I see this is a technique that is very important to learn. Watching Ruben Diaz youtube inst. I looks like the thumb is stiff, and the 2nd and 3rd movement movement is all wrist action. Am I correct on this? I practiced it last nite, the few time I got it semi going,, was cool.
Ive learned some compas? or falsetas from Graf Martinez flamenco book. But I see that just learning some "riffs" wont get me where I want to go. I need to learn some basic techniques.
thank you Steve




Erik van Goch -> RE: alzapua thumb (Jul. 17 2013 16:45:58)

I use wrist with a little help from the thump but tend to vary. Just investigate all possible combinations and see what works for you in various situations.




arielestulin -> RE: alzapua thumb (Jul. 18 2013 0:58:56)

the main thing is try to stay relaxed. As soon as you thing you have to put some muscle into it, you know you're not doing it right. And you risk injury. No pain, no gain doesn't apply here.




Erik van Goch -> RE: alzapua thumb (Jul. 18 2013 21:04:19)

30 years ago when my father asked the 15/16 year old Vicente to demonstrate his alzapua a little more slowly Vicente gave it a try but soon stated that it is impossible to show the real thing slowly because the technique involved needs a certain speed to work. It's the same thing like running, you need the speed to be able to lift both feet from the floor simultaneously and you can not practice/show that movement slowly.

It is possible to play razor sharp (wrist based) alzapua without real physical effort, but it demands the precision of a switch clock. Very small differences in the elements involved (nail shape/length, angling thump/hand/wrist, kind/amount and durance of energy input) can mean a world of difference in how thinks work out and it takes a lot of effort to tune/refine/maintain that potential canon.

Even the durance of input can mean a world of difference in how body parts react on nerve/muscle pulses. If the movement is to slow and/or the input to long they tend to stay in there new position and will need new input in the opposite direction to return to starting position. But if you cut of the input quick enough (i'm talking split seconds here) the same body parts tend to fall back in starting position automatically (saving you the trouble to do it yourself). It's a little bit like that famous hammer on knee reflex. If for instance you play a string with your i, a or m finger it will only fall back in starting position automatically when the movement was quick enough and the input was cut of right away.

The same happens when you play a downwards alzapua..... if the action is quick enough and the energy input is cut of right away it will (can) be launched back almost as fast as it went down (just as a natural action/reaction response) saving you the trouble to lift it yourself. I don't know how frequent i use this effect because like i said it is not something you can study in slow motion. It works on an individual pair of strokes that demands extremely fast up and down movements and probably is effective in series of alzapua as well (it would partly explain how effective one can play with almost zero input if the input is restricted to a series of split second pulses that are cut of almost before they thump has a chance to move).

Obviously i study alzapua slowly as well which energetically is not the same as the real stuff but gives you some idea how to shape/position your nail/thump/wrist/hand for smooth cooperation and minimal friction. I favor to study with wrist moves (but embrace thump involvement at high speeds) and a completely relaxed thump/wrist/hand unit (muscles are more responsive to subtle nerve pulses when they are completely relaxed, in the same way you are more responsive to whispered words in a silent room then in a loud disco). I tend to get better results when i give extra (rhythmic) attention to the up strokes. On top i give extra attention to the accented strokes...... i tend to hold them a little longer when i practice (just long enough to make them stand out) even when it takes me more time then allowed. Somehow those moments of connecting with the musical highlights give me some physical/energetic rest/reference points that i can also benefit when playing at full speed. You can grand a stroke more time by steeling some time from the neighboring notes, but you can also benefit the effect when you only think it long (without actually playing it long).




SLJ -> RE: alzapua thumb (Jul. 19 2013 14:30:41)

thank you . I played around with alazpua last nite. I got a little going, Im afraid starting old 52 at this style of music,,, I will never be a true flamenco player, but hopefully this technique as well as others I hope to learn will give me the Spanish flavor I m looking for.

Steve




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