emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=237788



Message

annika.a -> emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 13:13:05)

I am a MIR researcher and I am working on musical emotion.

Recently I've become interested in how emotions get expressed in different musical genres. The reason is because the features that you can use for genre recognition (loudness, timbre, tempo) are also applicable for emotion recognition.

Flamenco is, definitely, a very emotional musical genre. But are the specific performance manner and timbral characteristics of flamenco making it more capable of expressing certain emotions - nostalgia, passion, - and incapable of expressing others? For instance, sadness in flamenco is always very theatrical.

Of course, you can say flamenco song is sad and Hoche Messe is sad, but those are very different kinds of sadness. I've started to study those things and discovered that emotional terms describe different things in different genres. Listeners of classical music feel "amazement, wonder" when they hear quick, joyful music, while listeners of electronic music feel amazed when they hear dark, awe and fear inspiring music. For listeners of classical music nostalgia is a sorrowful and tragic feeling, and for listeners of rock term "nostalgic" applies more to quite, slow and calm pieces.



For my research I'm still collecting data, so if you want to participate in my study, please do so! You can fill in a questionnaire where you can listen to music (takes around 10 minutes), you will discover some new music and in the end also get feedback about your preferences and your similarity to other people.

In order to take part in the study go to emotify.org.

Thank you and comments welcome!



runner -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 13:49:06)

Check out Leonard Meyer's 1961 classic book Emotion and Meaning in Music. Meyer was head of the music department at the University of Chicago, and also author of Music, the Arts, and Ideas, an amazing, though also rather formidable, overview of where the arts are heading (as seen in the 1960s, though Meyer's overall predictions have proven accurate).



gerundino63 -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 14:46:44)

There are a lot of different Palos...
The saddnes of a petenera is much different than the sadnes of a siguiriyas in my oppinion...



Morante -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 15:02:14)

Another half baked academic theis on flamenco[X(] How many have we seen???? how many understand anything?[X(]



guitarbuddha -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 15:11:56)

If you try and measure things which can't be measured then you will end up measuring things which shouldn't be measured.

Already in your post I notice A LOT of nudging and a few blanket statements.

I am no fan of the idea of brain imaging as a panacea but I have to say that this looks like the kind of enquiry which would absolutely benefit from it.

Show a variety of emotive images let the subject internalize their reaction,check which brain areas are activated. Then ask for a single word describing the emotion and again record and compare. This will give you a fairly objective basis to then move onto music.

Randomly sequence a series of musical excerpts in various styles and then repeat as above but for musical examples instead of visual images.

This procedure would have the advantage of removing your all to readily verbalised preconceptions from the equation. I don't mean to be unjustly critical but a survey would have very little value in furnishing any objective results.

Also different cultures have different relationships with the presumed emotional content of musical devices so you would need to repeat the experiment on a variety of varied social and geographic groups.

As for the definition of words you need to be a lot more careful.eg Nostalgic actually means a longing for the past. So any rock music from a listeners past could be labelled nostalgic regardless of tempo tonality or indeed any musical characteristic whatever.

D.



gslavonic -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 15:42:47)

Just listen to Paquera, to La Bernarda y Fernanda, to Terremoto and you will find the most authentic emotion in flamenco. Most of what there is out there these days is painfully contrived and makes me want to crawl under my own skin!



tele -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 20:56:57)

Flamenco is certainly music with most sentimiento/emotion in my opinion at least

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

If you try and measure things which can't be measured then you will end up measuring things which shouldn't be measured.



True.
Sort of obvious to real musicians when it comes to measuring connection between music and emotion



Morante -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 21:09:28)

I remember a visit from an American woman, who claimed to be a dancer and was writing a doctorate on jaleo. Apart from the fact that she couldn´t dance, her technique was to count the frequency of jaleo and annotate it.

In my opinion, jaleo is much more difficult to understand and to use than palmas. If you have ever witnessed a juerga gitana you will understand that writing down the jaleo is a laughable concept.



Leñador -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 21:09:45)

quote:

For instance, sadness in flamenco is always very theatrical.


Nothing theatrical about this, period.
Go to 2:26




Rmn -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 15 2013 22:20:37)

today I spent the whole day playing por solea crying because a girl I love would not fly over to be with me anymore.

Every time I play or sing I connect it to a feeling that justifies the music I play.
When I play por seguiriya for example, I think of all the dead citizens and soldiers I saw lying across the road when I was a kid and my parents worked in a company in Iraq. We flew with special airplanes after Basra was bombed, but to get to the plane we had to drive for some hours by car, which meant seeing all the victims.
It's not all theater...



Sr. Martins -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 16 2013 16:41:36)

quote:

Nothing theatrical about this, period.
Go to 2:26



Dude, we all know how you end up finding these videos. It always starts with something like:

Rocio Marquez



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



clevblue -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 16 2013 17:06:03)

I love Rocio Marquez. (I mean her cante of course)[;)]



Leñador -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 16 2013 17:28:45)

Lol, I'm still petitioning playboy for a "Girls of Flamenco" issue [;)]



Sr. Martins -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 16 2013 18:04:57)

quote:

Lol, I'm still petitioning playboy for a "Girls of Flamenco" issue


Maybe a Torbe special? "Flamencadas en la carretera"? No?

Ok. [:D]



Sr. Martins -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 13:52:01)

Here's another piece that portrays deep feelings and emotion:





I think the title is hilarious when you look at the video. BTW, I noticed a good voice, who's singing?



annika.a -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 14:41:14)

I know of this book.) thank you for tip, though!



annika.a -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 14:45:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

This procedure would have the advantage of removing your all to readily verbalised preconceptions from the equation. I don't mean to be unjustly critical but a survey would have very little value in furnishing any objective results


guitarbuddha, thank you for the tips. The thing is that verbalised definitions of emotion is exactly what I need. I am trying to check for consistency between different people in their understanding of those emotional terms and their perception of music.

Imagine an online radio, where you would search for specific music using emotional terms. You won't ask people to plug in brainscanner in order to search in that system, will you?



annika.a -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 14:47:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Flamenco is certainly music with most sentimiento/emotion in my opinion at least

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

If you try and measure things which can't be measured then you will end up measuring things which shouldn't be measured.



True.
Sort of obvious to real musicians when it comes to measuring connection between music and emotion


I totally agree with you that there is no way to fully explain music with any sort of models.
But I don't agree with the notion that we shouldn't even try.



annika.a -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 14:54:16)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rmn


Every time I play or sing I connect it to a feeling that justifies the music I play.
When I play por seguiriya for example, I think of all the dead citizens and soldiers I saw lying across the road when I was a kid and my parents worked in a company in Iraq.


Rmn, thank you for sharing.

Can I ask you a question? So, you grew up in Iraq (and probably you are not Spanish) and your 'native' musical culture is arabic music? Is this correct? And you got acquianted with flamenco as an adult, still this new musical culture was able to take all the functions of your native one?



guitarbuddha -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 15:27:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: annika.a

The thing is that verbalised definitions of emotion is exactly what I need. I am trying to check for consistency between different people in their understanding of those emotional terms and their perception of music.



And that is precisely the consistency that my idea would reveal to the extent that it existed. This was exactly why I had the initial control with images instead of music.

quote:

ORIGINAL: annika.a


Imagine an online radio, where you would search for specific music using emotional terms. You won't ask people to plug in brainscanner in order to search in that system, will you?


No, I wouldn't expect them to whistle and have a magical horse deliver them chocolate bonbons either.

But what I would expect would be for them to be steered towards an extremely narrow pallete of shallow representations of different musics and that somewhere in the background a 'study' had been presented justifying this as a diversion from the actual intent of the site and the expertise and experience of the people involved.

D.
D.



Sr. Martins -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 16:18:39)

quote:

where you would search for specific music using emotional terms


Tagging music beyond rock/metal/world/techno/etc has been a total waste of time.

Maybe thats just me but I'll stay away from any "perscription music" and I'll tell Lenador to punch in the face those who try to tell me what's good for me... besides all the media of course.



Leñador -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 17:49:46)

Lol, yeah, I'm gunna have to say my idea of sad music isn't the same as my girlfriends. People who REALLY love music are too particular for things like that.



Sr. Martins -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Jul. 17 2013 18:07:29)

quote:

Lol, yeah, I'm gunna have to say my idea of sad music isn't the same as my girlfriends. People who REALLY love music are too particular for things like that.


Tamara Escudero

[sm=lol.gif]



junheng -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 15:14:36)

quote:

Here's another piece that portrays deep feelings and emotion:

[Habichuela video]

I think the title is hilarious when you look at the video. BTW, I noticed a good voice, who's singing?


Btw ... sorry if this is a thick beginner's question ... but that guitar of Habichuela appears to have a massive body ... Unless I am hallucinating ...

Is that normal? Do flamenco guitars vary that much in body size? Or Is Habichuela just a petit fellow?

Cheers mi dears. David [:)]



orsonw -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 16:11:00)

quote:

who's singing?


Tamara Escudero



Ricardo -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 16:14:38)

quote:

ORIGINAL: junheng

quote:

Here's another piece that portrays deep feelings and emotion:

[Habichuela video]

I think the title is hilarious when you look at the video. BTW, I noticed a good voice, who's singing?


Btw ... sorry if this is a thick beginner's question ... but that guitar of Habichuela appears to have a massive body ... Unless I am hallucinating ...

Is that normal? Do flamenco guitars vary that much in body size? Or Is Habichuela just a petit fellow?

Cheers mi dears. David [:)]


He is a small guy



Ricardo -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 16:18:34)

quote:

Listeners of classical music feel "amazement, wonder" when they hear quick, joyful music, while listeners of electronic music feel amazed when they hear dark, awe and fear inspiring music. For listeners of classical music nostalgia is a sorrowful and tragic feeling, and for listeners of rock term "nostalgic" applies more to quite, slow and calm pieces.


Unfortunately it sounds like your "study" is already biased by your own emotions and associated buzz words. You need to erase the slate and start over and remove yourself from the project in order to have meaningful data. Even terms like "listeners of classical music..." makes no sense. Every human with ears is a "listener" of classical music. Not everybody understands or likes everything they listen to.



Leñador -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 16:41:43)

quote:

Listeners of classical music feel "amazement, wonder" when they hear quick, joyful music, while listeners of electronic music feel amazed when they hear dark, awe and fear inspiring music.


Yeah this is kinda crazy, most electronic music I hear is happy and energetic, verging on cheesy, if electronica was dark and fear based I'd be a much bigger fan lol [:D]



edguerin -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 17:16:50)

IMO scientific research is - on a certain level -valuable in it's own right.
Wether or not the results are "valuable" in a broader sense (i.e. "for mankind", "for industry" etc.) is a different question.
Anybody undertaking the effort of research deserves our respect, and help.
So quit the bashing, give helpful comments or "for ever hold your peace".

On an aside: MIT



Brendan -> RE: emotion in music in general and flamenco in particular (Aug. 8 2013 19:29:29)

I tried to approach the quiz in a positive spirit, but I couldn't do it. I couldn't find my listening-profile among the given categories of listener, nor could I find my emotional responses among the options given. That's not because I'm a magnificently singular case with especially deep and complex responses to music. I am no such thing. I think any adult who cares a little about music will not fit the grid used to set up this study. This is a shame, because the base-question is interesting.



Page: [1] 2 3 4    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET