Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (Full Version)

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estebanana -> Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 4:57:08)

A Facebook friend asks me this:


"A question came up and you might be the answer man. A couple of my friends (one a guitarist) were talking about this video and the friend who is a guitarist wondered what the long term effects would be on a guitar in zero gravity. Without any pressure on the joints that are glued together would they slowly come undone?"

The video was:

Space Oddity
A revised version of David Bowie's Space Oddity, recorded by Commander Chris Hadfield on board the International Space Station. With thanks to Emm Gryner, Jo...

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Stephen Faulk:

"Gravity does not seem to me to be a particular worry. Guitars are an enclosed system of tension and stress and I can't think of one part that relies in gravity to actually function. The strings might vibrate differently in zero gravity, but the glued joints should hold as long as they don't get to hot or wet. I could ask an aerospace engineer I know who plays classical guitar."
a few seconds ago · Like



estebanana -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 4:58:13)

Like astronauts don't have enough to do? They sit around editing music videos of themselves![:D]








estebanana -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 5:08:50)




JuanDaBomb -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 7:10:02)

I don't think gravity can effect it in that way, since gravity only acts in the downward direction on earth. I think the main concern is the guitar floating away into a wall and cracking or something. [8|] It MAY effect string vibration, but probably only negligibly. In detailed vibrating string (not just guitar strings) calculations you do take the weight of the string into account, but in space the string has no weight due to gravity, so yea. Also I think sound waves are affected by gravity in some fashion too.



timoteo -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 7:39:19)

No, calculations take the MASS of the string into account - that's not the same as the weight, and the mass of the string doesn't change whether you're on Earth or in space.

If you think gravity has an effect on the vibration or the sound, then you would have to believe that a guitar sounds different when played upside down or sideways.



JuanDaBomb -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 7:55:08)

I said NEGLIGIBLE. If a thing has mass, and that thing is on earth, then gravity does indeed impart a downward force on earth, it is not "immune", and in space that force is absent. So I was merely pointing out the difference.

These are likely much higher level calculations than I've ever seen but I'd bet my bellybutton lint that it's in there someplace. And yea, mass is relevant I agree, as it must surely effect directional changes of a moving string regardless of gravity. But I think even the mass among various strings is also basically negligible, as gravity must be.

Strings also do not neatly vibrate in one plane, as anyone who has stared at a vibrating guitar string has seen, and so at some point in its vibration cycle gravity will impart a force and effect a change.

I'm not getting into a nerd war over this. I got other things to do lol. I was just throwing some coal on the fire to see the sparks. This whole topic is for light entertainment purposes anyhow [;)]



estebanana -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 8:29:38)

quote:

Strings also do not neatly vibrate in one plane, as anyone who has stared at a vibrating guitar string has seen, and so at some point in its vibration cycle gravity will impart a force and effect a change.


That is what I was thinking might be effected, but I bet Jernigan would have a calcs dialed in....
.....

......
And anyone who makes this thing into an adverserial nerd war is a putz, this is for fun.

If you think your nerd poop does not stink you should go try to wrap your mind around Alan Carruth's essay on strings:


http://www.alcarruthluthier.com/Acoustics.htm halfway down page essay called 'String Theory'



guitarbuddha -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 10:41:36)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

A Facebook friend asks me this:

Without any pressure on the joints that are glued together would they slowly come undone?"




Why would you assume that ? Is it because you know that the human bones are dissolved by time in space ( due to a lack of mechanical stress to stimulate the body to renew bone tissue they are reabsorbed) ?

There would be slightly more sustain as gravity is a damping force on the string. I don't think that there would actually be enough for the human ears to perceive.

Certainly after a few years as the incontinent astronaut's rubberised hands flopped about missing strings and whatnot it wouldn't seem like much of an advantage.



PS No need to go to superstings Steven, Richard Feynmans discussions on Optics(yes the optics one actually breaks down the procedure for calculating the damping) and Mechanics more than deal with this one, and you can listen to them whilst running away from black holes.

All this is really way beyond my expertise, I am just a humble ships engineer.


Scotty,out.



guitarbuddha -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:01:23)

Damm you Stephen now youve got me really thinking about this now [&:] and I haven't even had my second cup of coffee yet.

Sooooo....... when you play a guitar you set up a heat gradient from the warmth of your body. This will propagate through the instrument softening wood and glue ever so very slightly. In gravitational field over a very long time any miscoscopic movements would particles to arrange themselves ever so slightly to line up with the gravitational field (on earth that would be in the vertical plane).

In space this gradual lining up wouldn't occur in the vertical plane as there is not gravity. The slight mechanical moment induced by the heat gradient itself would be more significant and this would become more significant (think iron filings in a magnetic field ). etc etc,,,,,,,but the wood, if kept moist, is so plastic that it would probable take hundreds of years of playing before yadda yadda.

God, thinking about this is fun, but writing it down is the sheerest tedium,,,,,,,sorry guys.

D.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:07:02)

http://dewerelddraaitdoor.vara.nl/Lucky-TV.2550.0.html?&tx_varamedia%5Bmediaid%5D=235884&cHash=77d7fa06f741cd3dbfbd855d46b40acf



Escribano -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:11:58)

It seems that the frequency change of a string in zero G is calculated to be less than one 2500th of a semitone. [8|]

I am working on G force acceleration in my app at the moment, so this was interesting.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/64386/does-a-guitar-sound-different-in-zero-or-micro-gravity



estebanana -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:13:36)

quote:

It seems that the frequency change of a string in zero G is calculated to be less than one 2500th of a semitone.


Is that audible to humans or dogs? [:D]

Edit: Reading renders amazing revelations:

~It's worth noting that a frequency change of one part in 5×104 is about log2(5×104+15×104)≈2.9×10−5 octaves, or less than one 2500th of a semitone - quite a bit too small to be detected by the human ear. – Nathaniel 2 days ago~



guitarbuddha -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:17:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

It seems that the frequency change of a string in zero G is calculated to be less than one 2500th of a semitone. [8|]

I am working on G force acceleration in my app at the moment, so this was interesting.

http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/64386/does-a-guitar-sound-different-in-zero-or-micro-gravity


What, are you saying spacemen cant tune their guitars !!!!!????

D.



estebanana -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:20:13)

quote:

What, are you saying spacemen cant tune their guitars !!!!!????


The guitar is an imperfect system. The question is, is it close enough for flamenco??
jajajaja



tri7/5 -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:30:56)

Would the wood not seemingly split apart/warp/shrink due to the vacuum? I assume there are plenty of air molecules within wood, trapped within the fibers. However I see a business foray into the future... instead of old growth wood, we could have space treated wood subject to 10 hours in orbit or 15 hours in orbit if you want a higher premium. The 15 hours helps with the crispiness, sounds 100x better than that crappy wood that has only lived on earth and just like a Reyes [:D]



guitarbuddha -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:34:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

quote:

It seems that the frequency change of a string in zero G is calculated to be less than one 2500th of a semitone.


Is that audible to humans or dogs? [:D]

Edit: Reading renders amazing revelations:

~It's worth noting that a frequency change of one part in 5×104 is about log2(5×104+15×104)≈2.9×10−5 octaves, or less than one 2500th of a semitone - quite a bit too small to be detected by the human ear. – Nathaniel 2 days ago~


Yeah, Nathaniel should have read more pyhtagoras.

D.



guitarbuddha -> RE: Effect on Guitar in Zero Gravity?? (May 15 2013 12:38:23)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dyingsea

Would the wood not seemingly split apart/warp/shrink due to the vacuum? I assume there are plenty of air molecules within wood, trapped within the fibers. However I see a business foray into the future... instead of old growth wood, we could have space treated wood subject to 10 hours in orbit or 15 hours in orbit if you want a higher premium. The 15 hours helps with the crispiness, sounds 100x better than that crappy wood that has only lived on earth and just like a Reyes [:D]


Well obviously the guitars would have their own spacecsuits.

Gravity is essential for the propagation of the Fibbonaci algorithms implicit in plant DNS which controls proportion and growth. The gravitational field has a much more profound effect on the production of grain in a living tree than it does on a dead one (guitar). A tree growing in space would look like a retarded mushroom.

D.



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