What are these two techniques called? (Full Version)

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Romanza -> What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 1 2005 11:43:39)

There are two techniques I've been trying to perfect but not sure what they are:

The 1st, as exemplified in PDL's Entre dos Aguas, is when you pluck a string with your right hand once but in that note play two strings on different frets with your left - so the notes just sort of melt into each other (sounds really nice).

The other - and it may be more of a classical technique - is when you sort of wobble your finger on a string so it produces a sort of pleasing 'quavery' sound. I thought maybe that was called vibrato but not sure. Anyway I cant seem to do it without shaking the whole guitar instead of just the string.. I think its all in the wrist but I cant seem to move my wrist and not my arm!

Apologies for my poor descriptions. Thanks.



JBASHORUN -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 1 2005 12:13:43)

quote:

when you sort of wobble your finger on a string so it produces a sort of pleasing 'quavery' sound. I thought maybe that was called vibrato but not sure


Yes, this is vibrato. It is used in many types of guitar music, not just classical. One of my guitar teachers tought me 2 ways to do vibrato... the first is to wobble the string up and down (after plucking) by moving the middle joint on the finger on the left hand. The second way is to twist the wrist (sort of like opening a round doorknob) whilst the finger is on the string. The second method sometimes requires a "support finger" to assist the motion (just an extra finger on the string to help move it, especially if your muscles aren't that strong or your strings are high tension). I got the impression from my teacher that the first way is inferior to the second for some reason, I don't know if this is true and why.


Not quite sure what you mean by the other technique... sounds like some sort of chord, or letting some notes "ring on" whilst playing others.


James



Romanza -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 1 2005 12:23:58)

Ah, I will try the up down method and see how I get on.

As for the first technique - imagine the opening sequence of entre dos aguas (after the introductory cords) - http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/p/paco_de_lucia/entre_dos_aguas_tab.htm

Where it changes from 1st string 3rd fret to 1st string 2nd fret - the fingers move really quickly from fret 3 to fret 2 but the hugh e string is only plucked once - so you get two notes in one if you see what i mean.

If you look at the actual music notation http://www.flamenco-world.com/guitar/pacodelucia/entredosaguas/1.htm the two notes are joined up. I just wondered if it had a name.

Thanks again.



Jon Boyes -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 1 2005 12:40:04)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Romanza

Where it changes from 1st string 3rd fret to 1st string 2nd fret - the fingers move really quickly from fret 3 to fret 2 but the hugh e string is only plucked once - so you get two notes in one if you see what i mean.

If you look at the actual music notation http://www.flamenco-world.com/guitar/pacodelucia/entredosaguas/1.htm the two notes are joined up. I just wondered if it had a name.



Its a slur or pull off in common parlance. Descending ligado if you want to impress your friends.



Romanza -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 1 2005 12:52:30)

Brilliant, thanks!



JBASHORUN -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 10:09:34)

By the way, its great to see some female guitarists out there- the world needs more of them IMO! [:D]



Skai -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 11:05:05)

Welcome to you! If I haven't said that to you yet.

As for vibrato, both kinds actually have their uses. If you notice, when doing a vibrato movement parallel to the string nearer to the nut, the vibrato is rather weak. Thus I use the perpendicular motion at any fret lower than 5 or 4.

Well that's just me, but it's also explained the same way in the method by Frederick Noad.

As for pull-offs, I was taught something during a lesson! When some people pull-off, the pull the finger outwards and this sometimes causes the lower string to sound. The so-called 'correct classical method' is to pull downwards so that the finger rests on the adjacent lower string. Not sure if I'm the only clown who tried to pull outwards instead of downwards. [:D]

Cheers,
Cheston



Kate -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 11:25:54)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN

By the way, its great to see some female guitarists out there- the world needs more of them IMO! [:D]



Would it mean having to wrestle with Florian [;)] or would that just be the cute ones[:D]

Kate



Romanza -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 12:45:27)

I'm quite liking being one of the few females (guitarists) in this man's world! Had my first lesson last night, introduced to Palmas, rasguedos (ow!) and some of the palos. Frustrated to be at work when I want to go home and practice.



Romanza -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 12:52:31)

Thanks Skai - more useful tips!



JBASHORUN -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 13:49:54)

Hey Cheston, what happened to the link to the audio clips of some of your playing? I was gonna have a listen, but it seems to have gone.


James



Skai -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 15:16:37)

That's because I've found better flamenco like the Macarena and the Ketchup Song. Ricky Martin has great cante too. [;)]

Anyway I found those clips rather freaky. It consists of a lower-than-average guitar, cheapskate recording equipment, no compas structure and best of all, lower-than-average playing that I had about a year ago. Well it ain't much better now but there are certain improvements that I haven't the chance to record. [:D]

Here it is anyway:
http://seafeel986.dmusic.com/

'Enjoy'!
Cheston

By the way, I've always wanted to know the english translation of the Ketchup Song and Macarena. Would anyone be kind enough to tell me? It appears that the Ketchup song is about dancing, as translated with one of those online ones.



JBASHORUN -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 21:57:48)

Cheston,
you are too modest. I enjoyed the audio clips. You can't expect to play like Paco (either of them) after just a couple of years. The tremolo song was good too... if you have any tips on that one please share them [:D] .
The truth is that even your old songs are better than my current ones! Anyway, keep up the good work, and be sure to upload some of your new songs sometime soon.



James

PS: Can't help you with the song lyrics, but Kate seems to be an expert on all things Spanish, so she may be able to translate them for you.



JBASHORUN -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 2 2005 21:58:57)

quote:

Ricky Martin has great cante too.


LOL!!! [:D]



Skai -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 3 2005 1:55:53)

Honestly, I haven't learn much new material on flamenco lately as I've shifted focus to classical in hopes of taking my grades. I've just started 1-to-1 lessons with my teacher and it's really going so fast that it takes almost all myy time away from other styles. Another reason would be because amazon.com sent Vol 2 of my Graf-Martinez method before Vol 1, and damn, the CD's in Vol 1.. [:D]

I've been playing the same solea for months, adding on small details here and there. Strumming some tangos and bulerias too. I'm starting to follow rhythm! Now I just need some falsetas to insert between the chording compas. [:(]

As for the tremolo piece, it's actually Romance de Amor. The original is played like this:

a m i a m i a m i a m i a m i a m i
p-----------------p----------------

So I just modified it and played the tremolo for the melody. The thumb plays the strings in this order, 6 2 3 3 2 3 3 2 3 6 2 3 3 2 3 3 2 3. Of course when the melody is on the 2nd string, the thumb will play 6 3 4 4 3 4 4 3 4. The first bass note will also depend on which string it is played on. Just when I thought that I made the tremolo version of the piece, I found it in a score book later on. [:D] Turns out that I'm not a great composer after all.

By the way, Stairway To Heaven was my latest recording. Tremolo style with some rumba at the fast portions. Now I just need someone to solo over that, anyone thinks that he/she can do a nice solo over rumba style Stairway?

Cheers and thanks for the encouragement,
Cheston

PS. I was watching this Ricky Martin interview a long time ago, he said something about his new song being very 'flamenco'. The album title was 'Duende' if I'm not mistaken. LOL



Kate -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 3 2005 11:34:19)

Hi Guys,
Not sure about being an expert on all things Spanish!!! There was an English version released and I think it got to number one in the UK, though best check with someone who still lives there. Anyway I found these Spanglish lyrics on line. I've put translations in brackets for the spanish words

friday night it's party time
feeling ready looking fine,
viene diego rumbeando, ( Diego arrives doing the rumba)
with the magic in his eyes
checking every girl in sight,
grooving like he does the mambo
he's the man alli en la disco, ( alli = there)
playing sexy felling hotter,
he's the king bailando et ritmo ragatanga, ( he's the King at dancing the ragatanga rhythm)
and the dj that he knows well,
on the spot always around twelve,
plays the mix that diego mezcla con la salsa, ( plays the mix that Diego mixes with the salsa)
y la baila and he dances y la canta ( and he dances, and dances and sings)

[Chorus:]
asereje ja de je de jebe tu de jebere seibiunouva,
majavi an de bugui an de buididipi,
asereje ja de je de jebe tu de jebere seibiunouva,
majavi an de bugui an de buididipi ( this is totally made up language )

many think its brujeria, ( brujeria = wizardry or magic)
how he comes and disappears,
every move will hypnotize you,
some will call it chuleria, ( Chuleria from the word chula meaning cool or pimp)
others say that its the real,
rastafari afrogitano

he's the man alli en la disco,
playing sexy felling hotter,
he's the king bailando et ritmo ragatanga,
and the dj that he knows well,
on the spot always around twelve,
plays the mix that diego mezcla con la salsa,
y la baila and he dances y la canta


Kate



Skai -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 3 2005 13:32:37)

Woohoo! Thanks lot! Now if I can just catch those words.

Fascinating I must say. I thought that the chorus had meaning though, and I was intending to sing a direct translation of it. [:D]



Kate -> RE: What are these two techniques called? (Nov. 4 2005 11:23:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Skai
I was intending to sing a direct translation of it. [:D]


Now that I would love to hear
[&:]

kate



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