RE: Blending Strings (Full Version)

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chester -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 0:12:58)

quote:

a few, phenomenal people on this Forum

I'm going to go ahead and assume that you're talking about me.

Well shucks. I'm blushing. [:D]




Ricardo -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 12:16:55)

quote:

It might almost be a worthwhile comparison if it were the same player playing the same piece on the same guitar under the same recording conditions with the only difference being the strings but otherwise it's all rather pointless.


Well, that IS the entire point isn't it? To get at what reason to use one string or another anyway. If you gave a blind recorded test with say 3 different types of strings (Labella 820 B and R sound a bit different actually for example, luthier vs daddario etc) and we know what the choices were, I think many of us with the experience with those specific brands could get a multiple choice quiz correct. And that in itself would be significant.

A while back someone posted a sound test with like 3 or 4 guitars. Audio was not great, and the majority could still easily tell which guitar was blanca vs negra, and even the peg headed vs machines. So there is something to it all. And in the end if you want to criticize youtube vid quality for any guitar sound characteristic at all, well then, what in the world is the POINT to build a nice instrument AT ALL? Only for collectors to play them at home in their favorite bathroom? Since the filtered world of recording studio, concert hall and TV render any professional's instrument construction details pointless?




Sr. Martins -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 12:56:38)

Its not the quality or the sonic character of an instrument/strings/etc thats into play, its the comparisons that people often make.

The most ridiculous youtube comments Ive seen are on videos about expensive studio monitors and audiophile grade hi-fi speakers. How can one judge the quality of a set of speakers that were captured in a room by a small camera's microphone, compressed and then come out of the listener's own speakers?[&:]




Ricardo -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 13:03:26)

quote:

Its not the quality or the sonic character of an instrument/strings/etc thats into play, its the comparisons that people often make.


But that is just it, if we are not allowed to make comparisons due to inferior fidelity, what was the point of there being any difference to "sonic character of bla bla bla"??? In other words I find it ridiculous to insinuate that the differences of wood strings nails etc have no meaning if there is slightly inferior fidelity on a youtube video.

quote:

The most ridiculous youtube comments Ive seen are on videos about expensive studio monitors and audiophile grade hi-fi speakers. How can one judge the quality of a set of speakers that were captured in a room by a small camera's microphone, compressed and then come out of the listener's own speakers?


even our physical ears are different, and as some have pointed out certain frequencies might attenuate with age, so it is only equally ridiculous to say that expensive studio monitors matter to anybody except ONESELF.




C. Vega -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 13:08:18)

Edit.

I was going to comment further but decided it just wasn't worth the effort.




Sr. Martins -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 13:31:35)

When comparing things "live" we're already making a commitment to our own perception as human beings.

I wasnt criticizing studio monitors, I was talking about judging studio monitors through some other monitors. Its like trying on a condom without taking your pants off.




Arash -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 16:16:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega


It might almost be a worthwhile comparison if it were the same player playing the same piece on the same guitar under the same recording conditions with the only difference being the strings but otherwise it's all rather pointless.

Do any of you really think that you could tell whether a player was using clear or colored strings (or a mix of two or three colors), either on a recording or in a live performance, if you couldn't see the strings?
I rather doubt it.


Why do you mix up things?
Since your comment was about the comparison of those two "crappy youtube videos", you were refering to the comment by Ricardo, which had absolutely nothing to do with strings.

Imo if you would have to, you could compare the sound of Javier Conde with the sound of Grisha, Moraito, etc. (of course only to some extent, since each player has a different sound, even different thumb and rest of the fingers). And you can hear that in all type of different recordings, no matter which quality, the main characteristics are hearable even in the crappiest possible quality video and audio. Its the very strong attack, the edgy sharpness, or whatever you want to call it, which also has to do with nail shapes.

Of course whether you prefer this or that sound is simply taste.




gj Michelob -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 16:26:51)

quote:

nd in the end if you want to criticize youtube vid quality for any guitar sound characteristic at all, well then, what in the world is the POINT to build a nice instrument AT ALL? Only for collectors to play them at home in their favorite bathroom? Since the filtered world of recording studio, concert hall and TV render any professional's instrument construction details pointless?



Charles Vega is in no position to appreciate what you are saying, Ricardo, simply because he does not play guitar, only talks about it.
Hence, the awkward and somehow irritating comments he posts.




sig -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 20:45:02)

I agree, a lovely Granaina and I only wish I could approach his level of accomplishment on the instrument. I was just wondering if by chance that clear 1st E string was a last minute replacement? I have Labella 820 red's on my Culpepper and I broke my E string at a gig and had a pack of D'Addario's in the case and had to sub in a clear E. Perhaps just a fluke that he didn't have the same strings?
Sig--




gj Michelob -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 21:16:27)

quote:

I agree, a lovely Granaina and I only wish I could approach his level of accomplishment on the instrument. I was just wondering if by chance that clear 1st E string was a last minute replacement? I have Labella 820 red's on my Culpepper and I broke my E string at a gig and had a pack of D'Addario's in the case and had to sub in a clear E. Perhaps just a fluke that he didn't have the same strings?
Sig--


Wow... very good point sig. It had not occurred to me at all that this entire drama on blending strings could have been caused not by Javier' s choice, but Force Majeure.

And Chester... yes, you are one of them [sic] phenomenal people I referred to [;)]




Dave K -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 21:40:00)

Okay, here's what the late great Ron Mitchell had to say about coloured strings
(And Conde orange)... Damn, I miss that guy.

Cheers,
Dave

Zurdo,

I know you are a guitar dealer and have to keep in touch with all the issues.
On the coloured string issue, well, frankly I was lying!
I actually do know, but was reluctant to tell, lest no one would believe me.
I may as well disclose this episode which happened to me back in 1970...

One day as I was coming out of the old Ramirez shop in Madrid , I practically tripped up over somebody sitting on the pavement outside, who asked me if I could spare "a few pesetas for an old man."
Whilst digging in my pocket for some loose change, he asked me what I had bought.
I told him, just some Savarez strings for my guitar....
He reached out for them, took one look at them and threw them to the ground.
"Paa!...French muck! ... Where are you from amigo?... Let me tell you the true story of true Spanish stringmaking."
I picked up my packet of strings and quickly pocketed them, as he beckoned me to sit beside him.
"Look amigo", he said "I spent forty five years of my life making strings in the old "Black String" factory up in the North of this city, until I became too old to work anymore.
Nobody could make strings like us amigo... Nobody.
Even The Maestro himself used them as you can see on his Album cover.
Back in those days, all the orphans from the various barrios would come, barefoot and dressed in rags bringing us dead cats, mostly the result of road accidents etc, for which the Manager would pay between one and three pesetas each one, depending on the quality and blackness of the cat.
One day a boy, just a child of maybe nine or ten, appeared with one of the fattest and blackest cats I had ever seen...La Madre Mia!...it was a sight indeed to behold!
The Manager quicky sent someone up to fetch the Señorito, the owner of the Factory.
He came down and inspected it, smiled and nodded in approval, and pressed a shiny duro piece into the urchin's grubby hand.
Hombre!.... Five pesetas for a cat?...It was unheard of in those days I tell you!
I have never come across such a cat since.
When we had collected enough cats, then the Head Stringmaker would light the fire under the brine filled Cauldron and once it was up to temperature, the Apprentices would lower the dead cats in, a similar kind of process really as boiling horses down for glue.
The broth was then lovingly hand stirred by Apprentices who would sleep and work in shifts for three nights and three days, slowly reducing to a thick, black gloop.
At that point, the Head Stringmaker would return, constantly checking the consistency and quality every two minutes, even forgoing meal times until it was just perfect.
At that point he would shout "Eso Es!"
We'd immediately all stop playing cards or fooling around and we'd all stand in silence.
An Appentice would run to fetch the Señorito, who would return with a phial of his 'secret ingedient', which was the elixor of turning the gloop into strings.
The potion was poured in and quickly stirred by the Head Stringmaker, who would then take a long rod, known as "El Varilla" and carefully pull up a filament of the black substance, pulling it slowly across a 100 metre long glass table, at which were seated some thirty or so girls.
These girls were not your usual cigar rollers from the Tobacco Factories, but hand picked, imported workers from the Spaghetti rolling industry in Italia.
They could roll that cooling filament to within a thousanth of a millimetre with just the touch of their hands...we didn't even have a micrometer in the Factory!
It was a joy to watch them work.
When the filament had cooled sufficiently and had achieved it's strength and suppleness, it was then cut up into lengths and placed in packets suitable for selling."

I told him I was truly amazed at this "underworld" of string manufacture, and I asked him about the red strings I had seen.
Where were they made?
He laughed and nodded...
"Si Hombre, recuerdo muy bien", he said smiling.
"It was a foreigner, Americano, I think, started a Factory here in Madrid looking for a new innovation in strings.
He wasn't a cat man though, mainly dogs....
After many months experimenting he came up with the Red Setter as the best for strength and durability.
Some people didn't like them much, as the strings would leave red marks on the bridge and the rollers.
Actually they used to sell the red dog distillate to Conde Hermanos, who would mix it with Shellac and Turpentine to finish their guitars with.
They liked the reddish-orange finish and said it gave the guitars more of a bite and growl."

I thanked him for his story and as I was about to go, he asked me for fifty pesetas for another bottle of "Fundador" as all this story telling was making him thirsty.
So that's the true story of coloured strings, brought to you for the first time exclusively on this Forum.

cheers

Ron[:D]




gj Michelob -> RE: Blending Strings (May 2 2013 22:31:32)

quote:

Okay, here's what the late great Ron Mitchell had to say about coloured strings
(And Conde orange)... Damn, I miss that guy.


Ditto !




Guest -> [Deleted] (May 3 2013 18:43:11)

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itoprover -> RE: Blending Strings (May 3 2013 20:22:13)

I have the same setup on my A26 because 820B 1st string loses intonation after 6 weeks on this guitar. So I use Savarez crystal for the 1st string.




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