History of Paco de Lucia? (Full Version)

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mark74 -> History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 6:31:56)

Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of Paco's career...what he did in terms of guitar music and at what time..what were his innovations and why he's almost universally considered the greatest flamenco player of all time?

I'm also curious about when he switched to the flamenco negra and his rocky relationship with the Conde family.



estebanana -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 7:21:59)

Read Paco Sevilla's book:

http://www.amazon.com/Paco-De-Lucia-Tradition-Flamenco/dp/0964637405



keith -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 8:20:05)

and wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paco_de_Luc%C3%ADa



brandoscostumes -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 18:07:47)

focking n00b!



estebanana -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 18:16:27)

I just noticed Paco Sevilla's book is really expensive on Amazon, has it not been reprinted?



keith -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 20:16:02)

flamenco connection has it listed for $25



mark indigo -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 21:48:53)

quote:

I just noticed Paco Sevilla's book is really expensive on Amazon, has it not been reprinted?
quote:

flamenco connection has it listed for $25


or buy it direct from the author:

http://www.flamencobooks.com/order.shtml



Ricardo -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 22:54:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of Paco's career...what he did in terms of guitar music and at what time..what were his innovations and why he's almost universally considered the greatest flamenco player of all time?

I'm also curious about when he switched to the flamenco negra and his rocky relationship with the Conde family.



Sure, his bro won the jerez cante contest in 1962 he was 14 or so, pepe was 16, and with prize money they made Chiquitos de Algeciras. A great record, Paco was a little dirty and missing a thumb nail, but very advanced for kids. Pepe hit the big time and Jose greco grabbed him, but his dad forced them to take Paco too. So Paco got to travel the world, and long story short it changed his playing a lot. Before he was a N. Ricardo clone, after he learned about synchpation in South America an brazil, inspired to create by Sabicas/escudero/esteban de sanlucar (spaniards abroad), and much more. He recorded an ep when he was 15 in 1964, pretty dirty but fast playing including a note for note of Montoya's Rondeña. He recorded 3 ablums with his touring partner Ricardo modrego of duets, then finally came his solo LP "Fabulosa" in 1967. Contrary to popular written statements, my gut tells me this record was made with the NEGRA conde that he is seen on video with as a young man. (See impetu/panaderos vids on youtube).

From this time onward he seems to swap back and forth between negra or blanca for solo recordings, sticks to using blancas for cante mostly, and his innovations are too numerous for one post. Each recording can be looked at as a sign o the times if you look at the date, regardless if they contain paco's unique idea or simply the typical edgy directions of the players of those generations as the changes occurred rapidly from 1970 on to the 90's when the modern sound finally took a solid shape. He remains at the Vanguard IMO. The conde family business has more to do with his brother (Ramon's) concern about them using paco to advertise when in fact the builders of the guitar he used died in 1988-9.



Mark2 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 11 2013 23:59:05)

I bought Paco Sevillas book when it came out, and was not all that impressed. Many things I had already read elsewhere or knew just from being a fan. I did learn some new stuff, but it was mostly a run down of when he recorded this or that record, and other history about his concert tours, etc.
There was also some analysis of the playing, which was interesting.

My main gripe is how do you write a bio of a living person, who at the time of the publication was in his prime, without extensively interviewing the subject?
I mean, if you can't get Paco to sit down and talk, why write a bio? It's like writing about the bottom of the ocean without going underwater. If he could have spent some time with him, that would have made it a very interesting book IMO.



Flamencito -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 0:09:36)

Thats a very informative/interesting short description Ricardo [:)]



Leñador -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 1:03:53)

I would consider fuente y caudal a big turning point in his style, anyone agree?



Flamencito -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 2:29:45)

Probably it's even one specific song on that album that changed a lot ;)



tele -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 13:50:23)



listen to his answer to the first question
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

I would consider fuente y caudal a big turning point in his style, anyone agree?



bursche -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 14:33:34)

Always keep in mind that when Solo Quiero Caminar was released is sounded like music from Mars. That was even more innovative than Almoraima in my opinion.



estebanana -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 19:39:07)

I think what was important was Paco playing for Camaron and taking all that stuff in to cante accompaniment and making it fit and not step on the singer. They worked very well together where a lesser guitarist could have squelched the singer.

Later then Tomatito played for the Shrimp it was like Wayne Shorter stepping in to replace John Coltrane in Miles band. Even more of a good thing. The best thing of all is that Paco has able to live a long time and keep doing it, what ever it is he does.



Mark2 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 12 2013 22:03:30)

I'm not sure about that, but I did think it was a jump in the quality of the compositions-that record really rocks. Cepa has always been a favorite of mine, the palmas on it are unreal. The whole record-I wore out the cassette blasting it in my '85 firebird.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

I would consider fuente y caudal a big turning point in his style, anyone agree?



Ricardo -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 20:09:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

I'm not sure about that, but I did think it was a jump in the quality of the compositions-that record really rocks. Cepa has always been a favorite of mine, the palmas on it are unreal. The whole record-I wore out the cassette blasting it in my '85 firebird.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

I would consider fuente y caudal a big turning point in his style, anyone agree?




THat is a common view. I honestly feel the record right before it was MORE innovative, (duende flamenco) and I prefer several of the tracks as compositions too. Buleria are both good, but same vein, and there is ONE super unique sweet falseta way ahead of it's time IMO on Punta del Faro...comparing to Cepa. But that is my opinion only. I know most aficianados are turned off by the orchestra on a couple tracks. That is understandable of course. But for example the alegrias compositionally speaking on Fuente is quite RETRO (with even some monotya and Ricardo quotes compared to the elagant melodic "barrio la Viña". Solea also has some through backs vs the solea on Duende which was quite fresh in its day. And parts of Rondeña are still played in concert today verses most of the material from Fuente has disappeared except for the tremolo of taranta and entre dos aguas (of course).

They way I see it the two records could go together pretty nicely as a double album, but there is a clear slow evolution through all of pacos' recorded material. Seeing live performances such as Rito, really fills in the gaps.

Ricardo



mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 22:53:20)

Thanks for your answers.

I knew Paco's first big hit was Entre Dos Aguas, but I was wondering when he began doing things that "revolutionized" nylon guitar music. If I understand Ricardo it was his falsettas themselves that were the first big changes in the early 1970's.

They may seem like silly questions, but I've seen Paco get credit for inventing the flamenco negro, inventing rumba, being the first to see the parallels between Arab and Flamenco music and even inventing almost every rasgeo technique after the primative 3 finger approach.



mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 22:56:21)



Yeah, I love PdL from the period and that collaboration specifically

I think the above is my favorite recording of his..most here have heard it I'm sure, but it illustrates your point.

No offense to Ben Woods, but this is real "flametal"



mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 22:57:37)

Its just a matter of opinion, but that begins the period where I can't stand his music




mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 23:06:39)

thanks for the suggestion, i'm getting the book about the sephardic jews you recommended this summer.at some point i'll look into this



jg7238 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 23:12:24)

quote:

Buleria are both good, but same vein, and there is ONE super unique sweet falseta way ahead of it's time IMO on Punta del Faro...comparing to Cepa


I think i know which falseta Ricardo is talking about. It starts around 1:41...






mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 23:21:30)

Yeah, i see what you mean...

it definitely sounds like PdL with his signatures..however was it more revolutionary than what Cepero and Nino Miguel were doing...that's not a challenge, I guess I just don't know the full context

Great find btw, I hadn't heard that buleria before



Leñador -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 23:27:51)

Oh yeah, punts del faro was on Duende, that's my favorite bulerias of his, even over Cepa, that intro is waaaay metal.



chester -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 13 2013 23:56:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

Its just a matter of opinion, but that begins the period where I can't stand his music



I can understand where you're coming from, but I see nothing bad about the piece - I actually think it's really cool that Paco is experimenting and making flamenco more progressive. It's a little out there, but I respect it as part of a path of one of the best musicians of this era.

One of my teachers used to say - you need to break a few rubber bands in order to find out how much they can stretch.

I don't know if I'm just star-struck here, but doesn't Paco seem like such a nice and humble guy when he's talking?



FredGuitarraOle -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 14 2013 0:43:27)

quote:

I don't know if I'm just star-struck here, but doesn't Paco seem like such a nice and humble guy when he's talking?

He sure does. That's one feature I always noticed on Flamenco guitarists, most of the pros seem to be the most humble human beings on the planet. Considering the level they achieved I think it is commendable, since the World is filled with mediocre people with large egos and a lot of fame.



mark74 -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 14 2013 3:18:14)

yeah he comes across as a real gentleman



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 14 2013 10:35:06)

yes that is definitely true, most flamenco guitarists are friendly, humble people, approachable and helpful...unlike dancers :D



tele -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 14 2013 12:59:44)

I think its definately easy to hear the difference in his playing before and after playing fusion with Al and John



mark indigo -> RE: History of Paco de Lucia? (Apr. 14 2013 17:45:58)

quote:

I honestly feel the record right before it was MORE innovative, (duende flamenco) and I prefer several of the tracks as compositions too.

But for example the alegrias compositionally speaking on Fuente is quite RETRO

They way I see it the two records could go together pretty nicely as a double album, but there is a clear slow evolution through all of pacos' recorded material.


i agree on these points, and always felt that these two lp's (duende flamenco and fuente y caudal) could have made one KILLER album.

the one i have heard some people (ie. spanish pro's, including José Antonio Rodriguez) talk about as influential is Almoraíma, which is another big step in the evolution



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