RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Full Version)

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mark74 -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:00:19)

right ..like nino miguel...it helped him a lot...




mark74 -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:03:22)

don't buy it...youre one of the best virtuosos in the world in part because of your discipline and to be totally honest if i had a choice whether to go to one your concerts or one of paco's modern concerts i'd prefer yours because your'e more focused




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 19:05:52)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:11:54




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:11:45)

virtuosity and creativity aren't necessarily synonymous




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 19:12:43)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:01




mark74 -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:15:28)

come to think of it while we're glorifying substance abuse think of the toll cigarettes has caused on the flamenco world, because of the culture of indulgence

Camaron, Moraito, Enrique Morente, Antonio Gades...just a few legends off the top of my head that died early because of smoking




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:23:51)

quote:

think of the toll cigarettes has caused


or hunger and racism

it has fueled some great moments in the arts




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 19:30:24)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:09




mark74 -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:32:10)

hunger and racism are intrinsically linked to the human condition, cigarettes are not

Also they made Camaron and Morente worse singers over the years and I'm sure they didn't help Gades very much with his dancing

Moriato seemed unaffected until he died all of s sudden at 55..




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:42:58)

quote:

Cigarettes? I can't agree with this at all!


I hate cigarettes and cocaine personally... but they have been a part of the creation of some interesting music. The social aspect of sharing a smoke and shooting the breeze. You know..... hanging out.




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:45:38)

quote:

Also they made Camaron and Morente worse singers over the years and I'm sure they didn't help Gades very much with his dancing

Moriato seemed unaffected until he died all of s sudden at 55..


They were who they were. I would prefer them healthy too, but once you start monkeying around with people and their traits good and bad you can change the good things you like about them trying to fix the bad. Its like time travel.




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 19:48:42)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:17




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:56:49)

quote:

You can have a great hang out without any of this.


of course you can. but plenty has been created and ideas formed under both sets of circumstances....

there is still a vast history in many cultures of leaders and healers using mind altering substances to pave the way forward




Leñador -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 19:58:10)

quote:

This way you can retain more memories.


You can say that again.......
I'm good about it now but in my younger days there was probably a year or two where I couldn't recall a single Saturday night.....




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 20:05:43)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:27




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 20:13:54)

perhaps some of the talent that have seemingly screwed up their lives have actually been shaman in disguise.




Ricardo -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 20:27:27)

BBQ ribs never hurt nobody




Leñador -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 20:47:14)

People tend to contribute this creativity to acid, mushrooms, peyote and other hallucinogens. Speaking as someone who did A LOT of them I can say it's bullshi*t. There's nothing magical or spiritual about it, your on drugs. It's tapped a part of your brain that makes everything magical and deep but really, your just on drugs. I hate when hippies try and talk about how it helps them reach a higher consciousness and spirituality. Yeah, I fell for that too when I was a teenager, then I grew up and realized "Oh, I'm just on drugs." Nothing magical or romantic about it...




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 8 2013 21:23:23)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:35




RibNibbler -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 8 2013 21:29:40)

quote:

People tend to contribute this creativity to acid, mushrooms, peyote and other hallucinogens. Speaking as someone who did A LOT of them I can say it's bullshi*t.


could have been that you were hanging with the wrong people at the time and were using them recreationally?

Grisha, I was just pondering the possibility that maybe some of the artists you know of or have read about had a purpose other than being just great artists who ended up in a seemingly bad way as a result of substance abuse. Artists can be frequently understood no? It may be a stretch, but I can see the possibility of some artists in this condition being of such a high intelligence that they were completely misunderstood here by mere mortals and that their abuse of drugs may have been just them partaking in a vision quest of sorts to try and lead the tribe to greener pastures. The shaman confronts the demon, or the illness or whatever the situation is that needs remedy receives the vision and translates it into a medium that the tribe can understand. Except I am saying that perhaps we misunderstood the translation and we are left with the image of a drug addict/alcoholic. This is just a personal thought of mine as it isn't anything I could prove.

I do feel strongly that there is likely another purpose beyond the music itself that the transcendently great artists were trying to communicate with us and its no secret that a great number of them have used such substances. Maybe some or all were the Shaman of their tribe only that the world had changed from such practices as spirituality was handed over to organized religions. Just a thought.




Ricardo -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 1:52:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RibNibbler

quote:

People tend to contribute this creativity to acid, mushrooms, peyote and other hallucinogens. Speaking as someone who did A LOT of them I can say it's bullshi*t.


could have been that you were hanging with the wrong people at the time and were using them recreationally?

Grisha, I was just pondering the possibility that maybe some of the artists you know of or have read about had a purpose other than being just great artists who ended up in a seemingly bad way as a result of substance abuse. Artists can be frequently understood no? It may be a stretch, but I can see the possibility of some artists in this condition being of such a high intelligence that they were completely misunderstood here by mere mortals and that their abuse of drugs may have been just them partaking in a vision quest of sorts to try and lead the tribe to greener pastures. The shaman confronts the demon, or the illness or whatever the situation is that needs remedy receives the vision and translates it into a medium that the tribe can understand. Except I am saying that perhaps we misunderstood the translation and we are left with the image of a drug addict/alcoholic. This is just a personal thought of mine as it isn't anything I could prove.

I do feel strongly that there is likely another purpose beyond the music itself that the transcendently great artists were trying to communicate with us and its no secret that a great number of them have used such substances. Maybe some or all were the Shaman of their tribe only that the world had changed from such practices as spirituality was handed over to organized religions. Just a thought.


For sure drugs act as catalyst to inspire. That's the main thing about inspiration, FINDING IT. Drugs sure work in that regard especially for creative people like artists (it appears). But not only them. A great movie about cocaine in the 80's "the boost" with james woods. How his life started looking up his work and personal situation improved dramatically. The movie is a great deterrent
though as we see the same guy become depending and addicted and then the creative spark stops and there is nothing left but the addiction it is very scary. I think people remember the catalyst that inspired, could be a movie or a person, a food, work out, martial art class, a drug, a place, a new guitar, a new set of strings, etc...whatever and that thing stays with us and we crave it again and search for it. It is all fine so long as people understand to try to look for different sources and reinvent themselves so avoid habits and addictions that once inspired turn out to be unhealthy.




mark74 -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 2:33:35)

wtf?

are we talking about flamenco or the doors, now i'm confused




lukeofgod -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 6:09:46)

Marijuana is a gateway drug. Just like people who start riding bikes eventually start riding motorcycles. Or babies who drink milk eventually move to drinking water. It's a fact [:D]




Leñador -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 12:45:23)

I rode a bike before I smoked marijuana, and I used to use my bike to get it.....maybe bike riding is the gateway drug......

Speaking of the doors, I did peyote in the desert once when I was young and good looking just like Jim Morrison, now I'm fat and bearded, just like Jim Morrison got, coincidence?? We'll never know.....




Flamencito -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 13:47:05)

quote:

I rode a bike before I smoked marijuana, and I used to use my bike to get it.....maybe bike riding is the gateway drug......


Makes sense.. Here in The Netherlands we have a lot of bikes and a lot of marijuana...

What i never hear them say in foreign news is that the Dutch population actually doesn't consume much marijuana compared to other countries..




Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 9 2013 14:05:13)

[Deleted by Admins]




n85ae -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 14:52:59)

Perfectly stated.

quote:

People tend to contribute this creativity to acid, mushrooms, peyote and other hallucinogens. Speaking as someone who did A LOT of them I can say it's bullshi*t. There's nothing magical or spiritual about it, your on drugs. It's tapped a part of your brain that makes everything magical and deep but really, your just on drugs. I hate when hippies try and talk about how it helps them reach a higher consciousness and spirituality. Yeah, I fell for that too when I was a teenager, then I grew up and realized "Oh, I'm just on drugs." Nothing magical or romantic about it...




mark indigo -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 15:27:48)

quote:

I did peyote in the desert once when I was young and good looking just like Jim Morrison, now I'm fat and bearded, just like Jim Morrison got, coincidence?? We'll never know.....


[:D][:D][:D]




Ricardo -> RE: Is Grisha on performance enhancing drugs? (Apr. 9 2013 15:31:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mark74

come to think of it while we're glorifying substance abuse think of the toll cigarettes has caused on the flamenco world, because of the culture of indulgence

Camaron, Moraito, Enrique Morente, Antonio Gades...just a few legends off the top of my head that died early because of smoking



Not to burst any bubbles for fans, but smoking is very common in spain. Unless someone is their doctor or close confidant you can't blame what happen to most of those artists on only innocent smoking. I would say based on personal experience that you could name cocaine as the culprit in all those names above. I am no doctor but I have seen the secret taboo connection between cancer and cocaine. Not sure why its such a big taboo over other types of drugs, but it's certainly a problem. People would rather die with a clean name than to be looked at as a coke head. For me more scary is the culto though, that claims artists too in the sense the flamenco music and life style tie together and finding "god" and spirituality can also mean flamenco singing has to go with all the other indulgences.

Ricardo




Grisha -> [Deleted] (Apr. 9 2013 17:26:05)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Apr. 10 2013 6:12:49




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