Foro=Lost (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - Foro=Lost: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=227221



Message


turnermoran -> Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 5:53:17)

Anyone here a fan of that show "Lost"? or "Twin Peaks"?
Where if you watched from the beginning, you got sucked in, but if you tried to enter mid series, you had no idea what was going on?

Lately, it feels like the Foro is like that.
Constant references to 'so-an-so who already discussed that..', and the Ruben 'arc', and 'Normal can tell you all about that'...Guys with thousands of posts to their names.

The search function seems less and less useable, since there's so much content, you have to be rediculously specific to get the results now.

Pretty amazing. I'm kicking myself I didn't find this foro earlier, and I've been aware of it for many years now.

I find myself wishing there were an index to great threads for the aspiring guitarist.
In recent years I've gotten exposed to more baile and cante, and would like to better use the resources on the Foro to make sense of it all.

A couple personal faves:
Cante Accomaniment Thread (Gold!)
Jason breaking down entire cante accomp. of palos libres in a paragraph (Mineira, Taranto, etc)
Norman's (and others) encyclopedic knowledge of cante letras.

As much as I like arguing about music business as the next guy, it's the threads about the mysteries of flamenco that are so valuable.

Has anyone tried to make a thread that's like, "top 5 (10?) most influential Foro threads for improving your knowledge?"




rogeliocan -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 8:18:14)

This is like complaining that people leave dirty dishes after eating and then leaving your dirty dishes as you leave the kitchen.

You mention your fav 3 and you don't post any links to them... but ask others to do so.

Give the example man!




machopicasso -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 8:19:39)

quote:

Has anyone tried to make a thread that's like, "top 5 (10?) most influential Foro threads for improving your knowledge?"


That's already been discussed many times. [:D][:D][;)]




Florian -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 9:29:29)

its hard to say what the best threads are cause they are all good ( or at least important to whomever made em)...everyone is looking for different things at different times....

and who knows from what kind of unpopular thread you might just learn the most useful thing for you...there's kind of no way around it, you kind of might just have to go through old posts and search specific things you are looking for


there's been so many good ones that i cant even remember most


also to add to your current list of the top of my head..."Falseta swap shop" is a massive one you might have already seen




manicfingers -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 12:20:30)

One thing that could be done at the site development level is to embed a google search form onto each page, and let google spider/index and give you search results. This could be done alongside the existing search, for those who like it as it is.

Then there are two completely different search algorithms that you could use to find content as a foro visitor.

One problem is that there are sections of the site eg. Audio Uploads that require foro membership, and so are currently (probably) invisible to the google spider, so it couldn't currently report search results on those sections needing login authentication.

But assuming that http authentication is used to authorise foro members, this could easily be worked around by giving google its own foro login, then it could spider/report search results the whole site. More details here.

https://developers.google.com/search-appliance/documentation/50/help_mini/crawl_access




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 14:34:53)

@manicfingers:
I've been just using google as the primary search vehicle and navigating back to the site.
That works pretty well. Not as fancy as what you're describing, but I can find stuff that way when the Foro search can't find.

@rogelican - this post was meant to be celebratory. As in "this is a good problem to have".
Not trying to be combative or anything...




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 14:49:45)

Around the new year, someone did a retrospective 'best of the Foro' type post.

I provide a link now, but I searched and I can't find it.

It would be cool if along with the other categories like General, Lutherie, etc, there were a reddit type category where the 5 thickest threads be listed. Or maybe rather than something dynamic like that, there could be a top 10 threads to read for someone new to the Foro so that if you wanted to be on the same page about what many people here discuss(ed) you would have a reference. Sometimes that would be even just a figure out the in jokes. :)

As in:
Picado - proceed at your own risk
Cante Accomp - ya-ya-yai-yai, tri-tri-to-tran-tran and other classic poems
Baile Accomp - to love them is to hate them
Conde Hermanos - airing M-F @ 2pm, just after The Bold and The Beautiful, and before General Hospital
How to get kicked off the Foro - Jason, Cory, animated videos, and Ruben; He who cannot be named, and the thread that cannot be read

;)




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 14:51:13)

Oh nevermind. I don't actually care about any of this. I'm just trying to get to 250 posts. How does Ramzi make it look so easy?




rogeliocan -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 17:23:31)

quote:

Oh nevermind. I don't actually care about any of this. I'm just trying to get to 250 posts.


What do you mean, could you elaborate?
(just trying to help)




estebanana -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 17:50:33)

Don't worry about getting to 250 posts.

Go listen and take on Ricardo's break down of Buleria pa' escuchar and it's relationship to Solea.

The Solea and Solea por buleria connections thread on the board right now. Figure out why Solea por arriba has a characteristic sound and set of left hand moves and why solea por medio has the same thing, but only different. And then figure out three main styles of cante in Solea and how they relate to the the main styles of cante lines in Solea por buleria. And then figure out how to play in solea por medio in the same key as you would play in solea por arriba but in the tenth fret.

Which moves can you pull off when accompanying por solea on the high frets and which moves do you switch to when you play por medio? Listen to how the great guitarists navigated those ideas. That should keep you busy for a few years.

And lastly what is meant by Buleria pa' eschuchar?

It's all there in Ricardo's break down and that information will lead to more questions to ask.

It's all here on the Foro in plain sight, you just have to see it.




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 17:59:48)

I thought I was just supposed to make emotocon repies.. (oh wait..)




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 18:03:07)

[;)]

ahhhhh




estebanana -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 18:55:48)

Dude, it just comes up and you follow it. In flamenco you really can't direct anything, it just flows. When you start being willful about forcing it, it disappears. Don't search google, just look at the topics. If you start a topic about cante and the question is well formulated 'they' will come to answer.




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 19 2013 19:26:53)

just like there is every temperament, personality and style of flamenco artist, so too exists in flamenco students. **** - a great many amazing flamenco artists aren't even gipsy anymore. Many roads..

I think the passive approach described will not work for every person. And many paths can lead to the same destination. Though every road is paved with hard work.

Whether that work be rooted in flight of fancy or a consistent directed and thorough approach is up to each individual, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the latter produces better results when you have to compensate for not living in the cradle of Andalusia.

Just one teacher's opinion




estebanana -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 20 2013 18:01:37)

The reason I know about flamenco is because I stayed up late many, many nights for twenty years and listened to some real good aficionados play and sing and talk about flamenco. You can't really learn flamenco from the internet, you can learn more about which questions to ask, but in the end it is really putting time in person with better aficionados than yourself and respecting and evaluating the knowledge they have.

Oh yeah sure, you can learn falsetas from Youtube, but that is not really what I mean by flamenco. Flamenco is the state of being you get into so that you don't seem like a total plomo to others and professionals sense this and decide to invite you to after hours gatherings where they do magic tricks.

The foro is not lost, it just is what it is. It's an online gathering, it's one step removed from in person transfer of knowledge.

( Not that I actually really know very much about flamenco at all, but in twenty years and two extended stays in Spain, I learned a tiny bit and I would never in any way shape or form claim to teach flamenco. )


[:D]




pink -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 20 2013 21:00:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana







( Not that I actually really know very much about flamenco at all, but in twenty years and two extended stays in Spain, I learned a tiny bit and I would never in any way shape or form claim to teach flamenco. )


[:D]

But you know you do teach....from the way you write,with the knowledge you share gained from the 20 years of late nights,the invitations, the time spent where it all began?........you probably were invited for more than one reason ,not just to learn the ways but also to share what you have gained through playing and working with the woods. This I guess is all part of it?
Also for many of us the only available way to learn is through an online community, grabbing what we can because our lives only allow a short escape from the other paths we may have chosen.......we too are respecting and evaluating the knowledge you guys have....maybe to get to our own little point of being able to experience'duende'
Respect to you all, however qualified you may or may not be.
pink




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 20 2013 22:53:47)

just to clarify a semantic detail: I didn't mean to suggest I teach flamenco per se by saying "one teacher's opinion".
I don't teach flamenco. I was speaking as a guitar teacher in general.
Not sure if that was a factor in anyone's reply.

But anyway, I don't disagree w/ Stephen. If you can hang w/ better players, absolutely.
If there are none, or you are the best, then the internet can surely be helpful for inspiration and improvement. But no - not the same thing.

And I fully agree that learning falsettas is not the same as learning to accompany cante, for example.
All I was suggesting is that there is great info here regarding many elusive things - cante in particular. And no, you aren't going to become amazing doing it via the Foro by itself, but those that contributed to that subject have created at this point an *incredible* resource on that subject, and all I was saying was that highlighting special stuff like that could be helpful for those otherwise wading through post after post about fingernails.

But sure it's valid to also say the internet makes things too easy these days. Hard won skills should be earned the old fashioned way.




estebanana -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 20 2013 23:34:29)

quote:

I was saying was that highlighting special stuff like that could be helpful for those otherwise wading through post after post about fingernails.


Fingernail and picado threads...that is what sarcasm is for and how it is developed or honed to a fine art.




estebanana -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 20 2013 23:36:20)

quote:

But you know you do teach....from the way you write,with the knowledge you share gained from the 20 years of late nights,the invitations, the time spent where it all began?........


Thanks that is very kind.

It all began because I picked up a rumba album.....




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 1:01:30)

Olé!




vigrond -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 2:35:01)

should start a foro Wiki




Ricardo -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 13:26:06)

quote:

and all I was saying was that highlighting special stuff like that could be helpful for those otherwise wading through post after post about fingernails.


Well, for some people fingernails IS special stuff....I think in two guys cases they had revelations and amazing religious experiences about shape and glue or something. So what you REALLY want is a nice neat reference for the things important to YOU and where you are at. That is almost impossible for foro members to do that don't know you well. Sounds like you already found some good stuff that might have ZERO importance to other members. (Cante accomp. for example has little importance to a super beginner player can't tune his guitar yet, nor for a working pro that needs advice on guitar repair). I would simply continue on that path of searching archives when you have the time and bookmarking them, and any specifics simply ask as estebanan suggested, because surely one of us that remembers your topic can quicker dig up an old post.

Ricardo




turnermoran -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 15:34:54)

R - you're definitely right here. I myself have benefited from fingernail, picado and similar threads.

I was just thinking that an index of popular or frequently referenced threads would make them visible to new users and save veterans from having to provide links to old threads.




Ricardo -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 15:58:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: turnermoran

R - you're definitely right here. I myself have benefited from fingernail, picado and similar threads.

I was just thinking that an index of popular or frequently referenced threads would make them visible to new users and save veterans from having to provide links to old threads.



THere are already "stickies" of course. Some of the popular topics that degenerated into personal attacks and locked wouldn't look so pretty as "stickies" I would think, but might be a good idea anyway so people understand how to not accidentally "troll" old sensitive issues. Certainly some stickies in the luthier section would be helpful...cheap guitars, woods, builds plans/soundports or guitars of famous players, guitar care/repairs etc could be consolidated so the main luthier guys don't get so annoyed. Anyway, a couple that I would promote to stickies would include the cante accomp. thread, and a couple others, one about solea elastic compas and solea vs solea por buleria were interesting (saddly Romerito deleted comments which were important to the discussions grrrrr), nails with photos, etc, but that would be ME personally. Its up to escribano really, and I am sure he is too busy unless you want to suggest to him via PM he could check the links recommended and decide if any are worth to make permanent up top. The more there are, the more we have to scroll down for new topics remember.

I honestly I am fine with addressing new people on the same old topic vs digging through the old stuff and trying to find the best example of stickies. Cante Accomp thread is the only exception.




pink -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 21 2013 19:18:03)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana



Thanks that is very kind.

It all began because I picked up a rumba album.....




And long may it continue Stephen........with best wishes
pink




Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 21 2013 19:26:04)

[Deleted by Admins]




vigrond -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 22 2013 9:54:03)

quote:

Who has the time though...


well that's the benefit of a wiki, anyone can go in and update it at their convenience, not just one person.

yes, maybe someone will enter something wrong, but over time information is corrected, and certain topics can be locked from further editing. further creating value with time.




Ricardo -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 22 2013 14:19:49)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vigrond

quote:

Who has the time though...


well that's the benefit of a wiki, anyone can go in and update it at their convenience, not just one person.

yes, maybe someone will enter something wrong, but over time information is corrected, and certain topics can be locked from further editing. further creating value with time.




Guest -> [Deleted] (Mar. 22 2013 14:28:33)

[Deleted by Admins]




z6 -> RE: Foro=Lost (Mar. 22 2013 17:53:30)

Ricardo got there before me.

If you happen to have happened upon a fingernail shape that acually allows you to play actual picado then you are lucky. I could not, and I had tried, intermitently, but with serious discipline and intent to get 'a' picado for a long time. Now it's sorted and I can. It is a revelation.

I have found that I must be 'ripe' (sounds smelly) to learn something. Ricardo's posts on fingernails are about the most important words I have ever manged to understand in such a way as to actually 'get it'. And the role of the thumb. And not leaning my arm on the guitar. The metronome. So many things I see people scoff at, sometimes.

Shaping then glue. It is magic. A revelation indeed. I have heard people talk a lot about picado here and I have read every word that I can because, for me, not having 'a' picado means I can't play. I wouldn't suggest anyone else think something so apparently childish, but I found out, after more than thirty years of playing, that I really can play after all. My stupid nails were in the way. They never stopped me playing Barrios or Bach, but the dreaded classical 'stiffness' always held me back.

There are some other threads out there now that interest me. Classical versus flamenco:

They look so similar how could one explain that, to me, playing flamenco is exactly like playing electric blues guitar; exactly. I was not Clapton but what I did was 'easy'. Nail shape makes it easy. Classical, to me, feels like 'the opposite' of flamenco.

Action, action, action. I can hear the groans but Ricardo has contributed such explicit, clear, instructions on how to do it while having massive fun. Others help along. Erik is almost psychotically generous with his hard-won knowldge.

The real biggies, for me are the technical threads. There was one on cante a while back that was a revelation (to me). Again, Ricardo put the actual (guitar) player's perspective with ice-cold logic, and humour. And clever people were trying to put a false perspective on it, but his logic and honesty cut through. This important, fundamental stuff.

And who could not wonder at Richard's beautifully crafted accounts of life or physics or engineering, or anything.

Then there's the luthiers. Those guys are all bonkers. If you think this place is lost try asking Anders.... well anything really.

Estebanana makes craics that have me snorting in public for days.

Lost?

One thing: None of my business and no idea why it is the case but I expect there were reasons but I've read over a lot of Jason Mcguire's posts and It is so hard to believe that he cannot come here; unless it's through choice?

I can't imagine Delcamp not letting David Russel have his say. In particular, the effort he put into explaining harmoic ideas was astonishing, and very helpful.

This place is certainly lessened by the loss of Ron, but there are plenty of people carrying on in his tradition.

Then you have all the wonderful music.

When I tried to learn flamenco years ago there was nothing. Only Juan Martin and me thinking; "This is a good book but he can't play picado. What chance have I got?"

I'm saying that, while I love all the threads that are truly significant to me, I cannot know which threads they will be until ai read through them.

Stickies are a good idea, but getting lost here is sometimes the best way to find answers to questions you weren't aware you were asking.

I'm off to jam with that infernal contraption, Dr. Compas.




Page: [1] 2    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET