Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Full Version)

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Blondie#2 -> Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 8 2013 11:00:41)

Just put a set of Gotoh machine heads on one of my guitars, very nice except they have made the guitar too heavy at the headstock.

Any suggestions for a supplier of lightweight machine heads with black tuning keys?

(most suppliers don't list the weight, which is annoying)



tele -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 8 2013 12:37:33)

You can buy replacement black "pegs" for some brands



keith -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 8 2013 13:23:45)

there have been a few threads with weights of machine tuners.



orsonw -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 8 2013 14:29:42)

quote:

(most suppliers don't list the weight..


I weighed some of mine and listed here-

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=164501&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=gotoh%2Cweight&tmode=&smode=&s=#166019



Erik van Goch -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 8 2013 15:14:08)

I was thinking about buying a set myself, especially since i broke my lower E tuner earlier this week. Might be interested to take over your's if you want to get writ of them. Which type of Gotoh did you buy and were did you buy them?



Blondie#2 -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 9 2013 9:43:22)

Thanks guys. Here are my Gotoh tuners, don't know which model they are. I'll have to weigh them next time I change strings to see how they compare to the models mentioned by Orsonw.



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Erik van Goch -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 9 2013 14:34:38)

I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it....compared to the "light/cheap (and now broken) crap" i have on my conde it's quality is probably worth it's weight in gold. I'm glad the plastic hand grip of my tuner broke of because that one was a pain in the ass for years and i was simply to lazy to do something about it...now i have to.

That brings me back to the question.... were did you buy the Gotoh tuners?



HolyEvil -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 9 2013 21:58:55)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch

I guess it's just a matter of getting used to it....compared to the "light/cheap (and now broken) crap" i have on my conde it's quality is probably worth it's weight in gold. I'm glad the plastic hand grip of my tuner broke of because that one was a pain in the ass for years and i was simply to lazy to do something about it...now i have to.



do all good guitars have very basic normal tuners? I can't remember what was on my Anders Eliasson guitar, but on the my David Macias guitar, which cost 6k new, it has the basic gotoh tuners which cost maybe 80-100 bucks. Why don't makers put more quality tuners? 200 bucks tuners should be better yeah?

well, if there's a place which sells better tuners, I'll like to change mine too =)



Erik van Goch -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 9 2013 22:15:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil

do all good guitars have very basic normal tuners?


I obtained my 1985 palisander Conde 2th hand so i don't know for sure if it had the original tuners. Since they were crap i had them replaced around 1993. A student of mine told me he could get me a much better pair for affordable praises and since i knew nothing about the subject i gladly agreed. Given the fact he charged me less than 50,- i guess they did fall in the cheap department.

My 1973 ibanez on the other hand still has it's original tuners...the early 70 models offered incredible guitars for there price (250,-) with perfect necks and action :-)



Blondie#2 -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 10 2013 8:09:40)

quote:


That brings me back to the question.... were did you buy the Gotoh tuners?


From my local guitar shop, they do all my repairs etc for me and keep a stock of Gotohs:

http://www.mansons.co.uk/



pink -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 10 2013 22:09:33)

I am told that these folks make really good machine heads and they sell direct too. I am considering buying some for a cashimira I have which needs a new set. This is the link......hope its of use to you.........

http://rubner-markneukirchen.de/onlineshop/index.php?cat=c4_guitar-mechanics.html&XTCsid=d6a2fb73cf03b72fd650c2826c66a683

Hope the link works OK...not so good with computers!! Best regards
pink



kominak -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 11 2013 13:01:30)

Rubners do look nice, but the mechanical quality is worse than Gotoh. If you can live with the looks these are as light as it gets and work very well, too:

http://www.madinter.com/index.php/for-classical-guitar/tuning-machines-pegs/tuning-machines-gotoh/gotoh-35ar-510s-en-n-b-ebony-knobs.html

I think I saw Anders using them on some of his guitars.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Mar. 11 2013 15:34:41)

thanks everyone, always nice to know the options.



johnguitar -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 15 2014 14:39:44)

If your choice of a peg head or a machine head guitar is based solely on weight considerations you can look here at some numbers. http://www.granadaexpert.com/johnray/weight-and-balance-in-flamenco-guitars/ I weighed a neck with peg holes and then the same neck with slots just to see the difference. You can save somewhere in the neighbourhood of 100 grams with wooden pegs, more if you use a lightweight wood for the pegs and a traditional thin headstock. This weight out on the end of the neck can really make a difference to the feel of the guitar.



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krichards -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 15 2014 18:08:23)

100g is quite a lot and more than I would have guessed. But what difference does it make to the sound of the guitar?

The received wisdom is that more weight in the neck and headstock means more sustain. But I'm not convinced about this.
And the other question is, 'Does the weight saving outweigh the obvious advantage of machine tuners? Well in my experience I don't get asked to convert machines to pegs but I do get asked to convert pegs to machines.
Now there must be a reason for that eh?



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 15 2014 18:27:33)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HolyEvil
200 bucks tuners should be better yeah?


Should be is the key question. Proper fitting of the tuners is vastly more important than the brand. I had one customer wear out a set of $60 Gotoh's. He's a professional studio musician who plays probably 6-8 or more hours a day. The first set of tuners only lasted 25 years.



Ruphus -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 15 2014 22:01:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jshelton5040

Proper fitting of the tuners is vastly more important than the brand.


Agreed; badly drilled holes and machines under tension can completely ruin the tuning / leaving even good tuners performing coarse.

But how important a make is can only be evalued after having employed the best functioning first.

Have you experienced tuners from Klaus Scheller yet?
-

Tuners to me appear to be the most underrated item in the nylon guitar world.

Look how quality tuners in the steel-stringed section work. Check out what seamlessness, smoothness and precision can feel like.

Then return to your typical nylon axe to see how it appears like turning spoons in a honey pot.

Next order Meister Scheller´s expensive but one of a kind stuff, tell him of the degree of torque you have in mind, and see your nylon strings tweaked like in the steel department.

Ruphus



jshelton5040 -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 15 2014 22:53:08)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

But how important a make is can only be evalued after having employed the best functioning first.

Have you experienced tuners from Klaus Scheller yet?


In all my almost 50 years of building I've never had a professional musician complain about tuners. I'd rather spend my limited funds on high quality wood and leave the expensive bling to those who like shiney things.



krichards -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 16 2014 6:19:01)

quote:

In all my almost 50 years of building I've never had a professional musician complain about tuners. I'd rather spend my limited funds on high quality wood and leave the expensive bling to those who like shiney things.


I could certainly agree with that John. I use Rubners or Gotoh and I've never had a problem reported with either brand.



Ruphus -> RE: Lightweight machine heads, black tuners in EU? (Feb. 16 2014 9:21:23)

You may agree however that judging something you have not experienced yet is not really meaningful, no matter how you shift around given imprirics.

Did I sound like praising "bling"?

I am willing to bet that the professionals you point to would appreciate gear that allows extremely precise control with tuning. The pleasure of seamlessly dialing in to any increment desired.

For some reason I even claim that professionals should appreciate such a feature more than amateurs. By use of logic at least.
-

Besides:
I used to belong to those too who tattle about boutique machines. And I still do in regard of some famous makes that outperform common gear only by little / correspondingly are way too luxuriously priced.

But if you appreciate precision tuninng and what it makes of your well intonating guitar, you admire the engineering of Scheller.

I think we have had some posts on finer gear on the foro, with others confirming how Scheller´s make a difference to bling.

Ruphus



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