RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Full Version)

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estebanana -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 4 2013 23:59:20)

quote:

So if Jimmy Page plays it, it's okay? :)


Yes, but if Gene Simmons tried it would piss me off. [;)]

I'm not the police, I don't care who plays it. It is not my intent to judge or deter someone from playing or hearing music they love. I'm just pointing out that music imprints on all of us in different ways, especially in our primary contact with certain styles or works, and much of the time we can't help how we react.

I wonder how many people if they are honest and would talk about it have had similar reactions to certain music or recordings.

I was amused later that the Barrueco made me angry. Rather like watching yourself do something you think you would not do. I mean how often do you have that kind of reaction to classical music? Bach certainly is not controversial in the way The Rite of Spring was when it premiered and drew anger from the audience. ( one of my favorite works) I saw it more as a positive thing than a bad thing. I'm ****ing alive! And I'll say I have heard Barrueco play on other recordings and liked it very much.

Perhaps in someway Barrueco would like it that it was so emotional and not just blah blah blah. I also have the Paul Galbraith recordings of the Partitas and Sonatas and they seriously put me to sleep. I can't stand his tempos, but his phrases and paced thoughtfulness are wonderful. When I saw him play some of them in person, I did not feel the same way about his as I did on the recordings. I liked his in person performance of them much, much better.

I think in classical guitar and classical music in general today, since the late 1980's, that perfection has been chosen over performance on recordings. Editorial tweeks of notes and the overall sound envelope is more restrained and mannered. I think the ability of digital editing to easily swap out notes or phrases from several takes to create a perfected sonic collage has been the downfall of some recordings. It's kind of musical homogenization.

Interesting as a side note if you will, the first time a recording producer swapped out bad note on a recording was on an operatic project. It happened in 1952 when Elizabeth Schwartzkopf sang one high C which was edited into a recording of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde that was being sung by Kirsten Flagstad. Flagstd missed the high C during the recording session and later during production Schwartzkopf was called in to sing that one note into place.




Ricardo -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 5 2013 0:29:30)

quote:

Perhaps in someway Barrueco would like it that it was so emotional and not just blah blah blah.


I thought it very cool he made "nylon and steel", very eclectic tastes for a classical musician and he was very humble about the project. But in the end, you hear the guy playing with Al dimeola and it was so stiff and awkward, like a student struggling to read and keep ensemble. I mean compared to PDL of course, but still we are talking very high level professional artist here, it's embarrassing. He admitted Al's music was rhythmically challenging....but I hear all the time the guy being praised for his rhythmic interpretations of classical music such as bach...Really???




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 5 2013 15:26:36)

Stephen, I see nothing strange in imprinting. How often among flamenco aficionados, do we see "era-inflexibility"? I really don't get into too much post-Almoraima flamenco, it just doesn't hit me that hard. As far as the Rite of Spring, it is somewhat understandable. That music goes with dinosaurs a lot better than tuxedos and opera glasses. Anyway, I thought the ruckus was a publicity stunt?

Barrueco brings an "aristocratic" elegance to his recordings, but it is rather austere and not particularly personal. I would rather hear Bream any of the day of the week--although I don't know if Bream ever messed with the Cello Suites. I like Casals for my Bach. I will be following up on your vids, though. I intend to learn the 3rd suite on the guitar one of these days. We'll see if I have enough guts to post it here! :)




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 5 2013 15:28:17)

I had not heard his rhythmic sense being particularly developed. Although, being from Cuba, one would think...




Paul Magnussen -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 5 2013 16:01:52)

quote:

But in the end, you hear the guy playing with Al dimeola and it was so stiff and awkward, like a student struggling to read and keep ensemble.


Not really surprising; if you don’t develop a Jazz vocabulary when you’re young, you never develop it. Have you heard John Williams trying to play Jazz? And this despite the fact that his father was a Jazz guitarist.

I remember seeing Julian Bream playing with Grappelli one, as well: that was hilarious. Bream played his carefully-rehearsed break, and then Grappelli, with a huge grin, said “Play it again, Julian”. Bream was sweating bullets.




Richard Jernigan -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 5 2013 17:00:48)

Bream playing and talking about jazz:



RNJ




Ricardo -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 6 2013 1:44:27)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Bream playing and talking about jazz:



RNJ



That was the BEST thing I ever heard from bream. Totally different guy, even it was simple music he projected well right there. He should have stuck with that stuff and done aguado and aranjuez for fun, cuz those tough tunes were NOT convincing and actually painful to watch.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 6 2013 4:46:13)

You are........... joking, right?




trendkiller -> [Deleted] (Mar. 31 2013 9:23:19)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 31 2013 9:24:22




trendkiller -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 31 2013 9:25:50)

I did a quick recording with my phone of the first prelude a couple of days ago. Didn't want to start a thread so I hope you don't mind that I'm sharing it here.

Here's the link.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Mar. 31 2013 13:59:42)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trendkiller

I did a quick recording with my phone of the first prelude a couple of days ago.



Your morning looks reminded me to this wonderful documentary starring David Fray





estebanana -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Apr. 1 2013 22:27:53)

He plays wonderfully. He had a very specific idea of how he wanted the accompaniment to work with his playing. I laughed when that one violinist who pulled a face when he said more sensual.




Erik van Goch -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Apr. 2 2013 12:16:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I laughed when that one violinist who pulled a face when he said more sensual.


I liked that moment very much as well :-)

I enjoyed a similar moment quite recently when i watched the trailer of the dutch version of golden oldies, were a group of elderly people who agreed to join a choir project meets the inspirators for the first time...and the music involved. Highlight is the non verbal communication at 0:45





Ricardo -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Oct. 29 2014 2:35:13)

Damn...turns out he didn't even write the cello suites. But it makes me wonder, who the heck was watching their 20 kids with all that music writing going on? Or rather, no wonder they lost a couple. [8|]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/classicalmusic/11188153/Did-Bachs-wife-write-his-finest-works.html




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Oct. 29 2014 14:17:13)

"While Anna is known to have transcribed for Bach in his later years, researchers found the handwriting did not have the “slowness or heaviness” usually attributed to someone who is merely copying, but was likely to have flowed from her own mind."

That's pretty impressive evidence--that her handwriting didn't have the "slowness" of a transcriber.

"Heidi Harralson, a forensic document examiner, said she was convinced the composer was more likely to be Anna than Bach himself, saying she was as sure as possible “within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty”."

There is a science of figuring out who has composed a set of music? What are the qualifications to practice this science, and how does it compare to the generations of musicians who have studied the music and never noticed anything amiss?

The article doesn't convince (maybe the evidence on which it is based does...kind of doubt it)




Ricardo -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Oct. 29 2014 15:36:30)

Maybe THIS will convince you!



That is sarcasm...these guys sound like they chase chemtrails and aliens etc.




Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Oct. 29 2014 16:09:16)

I like how the qualifications of one of the main speakers is "Tenor".




estebanana -> RE: Bach Cello Suites Compared (Oct. 30 2014 22:59:22)

This idea has been kicking around and dying a slow death. An Australian musicologist made this argument, but it has been pretty well shot down. But it still gets press.

Analyze the 5th and 6th suites, very complex. The Australian based a lot of his claims by saying this music is not Bach because is it too simplistic. Yeah right.

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