Ricardo -> RE: Segovia and flamenco (Jan. 18 2013 14:06:09)
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quote:
When you have the luxury of studying with an instrumentalist/composer like Nunez, I agree you should interpret as they say, at least up front. But then it comes to obviously Bach, the fingerings are a major part of the interpretation, and to follow one persons fingerings (and in case of a bowed instrument also the exact bowings ) is perhaps one of the things Williams is getting at. Today it's considered questionable teachining practice to not allow the student to find fingerings and explore the sonority and expressions that comes with playing in different registers and with shifts in different places. This is a whole conversation in and of itself. I would like to open the door about fingerings actually. And it relates back on topic, segovia and FLAMENCO. Watching that master class I become quite aware of how DIFFERENT segovia does things compared to his students. He is doing the typical disciplined moves that most top level flamenco players do, especially with left hand but I notice details of the right hand as well. Its odd that majority don't pick up on these details...maybe cuz he has fat fingers? Well, when flamenco players, top ones like Manolo, Ricardo, PDL, Nuñez, Tomatito, etc etc, they way the hands work is not with questionable and odd fingering or like just going for the notes to make them sound. It looks visually more like a choreographed dance. The hands are connecting dots and creating lines of movement and the end result (compas or libre or rubato) is FLUIDITY. It's the main thing lacking with classical guitarists and odd that the streetwise flamencos adhere so much better to this concept of disciplined fingering than classical guitarists or jazz or rock players etc. There is the spot in chaccone where the woman is supposed to swap fingers on a string under a bass, then BARRE and slide the "wrong" finger to position the barre... she never gets it actually and still does a half barre after figiting with the two fingers. Its a no brainer to a flamenco because its like a little pellizco of a dance. And to think there is a BETTER fingering when you realize the point of the fluid movement of the hand is...dumb. Or at least totally off the target in terms of the point of a specific fingering. Now you can argue that it's bach and fingerings up for grabs and should be encouraged etc...but in the end you have what exactly? I mean Williams is the technical wiz and robotic master...REALLY????? ANd Peña is doing what with him in "sevillanas" (sevillanas por favor) where he complains of jumping from one chord to another....REALLy WILLIAMS????? That is like beginner level basic time keeping lesson. Its like "dude you are not ready for this piece yet. Do easier songs that you can play IN TIME first". Yet the guy has HOURS of repertoire already "mastered" and recorded...and accused of being TOO TECHNICAL. I like when Peña laughs at him. So I see segovia following certain lines with with his technique and hand moves that are akin more to flamenco style playing...perhaps because he is andaluz and it really is in the blood? I mean obvious many don' get my point, but it is visually as clear to me as his accent when speaking, it's like an accent in the "look" of his hands. He does the whole steps with 1-3-4 and every other student is really like "what does it matter I do 1-2-4?". Then you see all the dark side flamencos (almost all) doing majority 1-3-4...I mean little things like that have a lot of meaning to me guitarwise, I don't care WHO the composer is being interpreted. And so now they argue that fingering should be open to debate. Well, if you accept my "dance" analogy imagine some little girl go to ballet class and say "no , I will be doing the movements my own way"... Anyway it's how I am seeing it on the old vids. There are some right hand things too, for example segovia fat fingers are not straight into strings they curve and move from middle joint more, and his thumb out over soundhole. His only student who got it was the winner Miguel BarberA who got the Ramirez guitar. It's a detail but odd that classical players that follow this school or that, don't pick up on the details and the "unschooled" flamencos DO very much focus on these things. Ricardo
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