I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Full Version)

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kozz -> I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 9:59:14)

I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis.
Looking where I am now from when I first started it can only mean two things, no talent or wrong approach.
No talent seems to be the obvious one for me. (Although living in an apartment building doesn't do good either)

I still enjoy listening flamenco, and I'll try to learn a falsetta or two over a period of time, but I have no drive anymore trying to able to play a set of palos. I'll just stick to solea and seguriyas whenever I feel picking op the guitar again.
Normans' falsetta collection is enough information for the next decades, and I'll never part from Anders' wonderfull guitar.

I also picked up an old hobby of mine, which always has been electronic music, and I am building my own modular synthesizer now, based on Don Buchla's and Serge Tcherepnin's visions, which is not like the synthesizers most people know based on Bob Moog's approach to electronic music.

Almost all my free time I put in soldering and studying electronics nowadays, and I am having a lot of fun with it!

Also I accepted an internal job replacement to India for at least a half a year which probably will be extended to a year.
This is a great oppurtunity for me, and also gives me time to dive into the musical culture from India nearby.

The offer to upload the Cantinas challenge is still valid and I am very eager to hear what has come out of it!

In the meantime I'll will put some material in the "For Sale" section, like books or videos, which are of no use for me anymore. I'll still have a few subscriptions to online lessons which seem to last forever, so whenever necessary I can go back to that.

Thanks all for the wonderfull time I had here on this foro, and the wonderfull people I've met!
Still I find it a shame that I could not meet up with some of you on the Boot Camp, that's something I really was looking forward to!

All the best!
kozz




koenie17 -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 12:14:36)

Hey man!!

Don´t give up Kozz! Just take it easy for a while. I know it can be really frustrating every now and then. But that´s no reason for giving up. I think everyone of us feels like you sometimes! Maybe you should try something new? Isn´t there a place in eindhoven where you can play together with some guitarist or even better with a cantaor? I know there are a couple of places in Amsterdam. Or take some lessons with a good guitarist! Just something to light up the spark again!
You have come too far to give up now!!

Veel geluk in India man!

Groetjes




Gummy -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 12:37:20)

I have a similar situation. I'm going to play some rumbas and electric guitar for awhile. I still read the forum often because I enjoy the community and reading about people who study guitar. Have you seen the preview for live 9 and Push? They look good. Good luck with your synth!




El Kiko -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 14:25:32)

Things just come and go in waves so maybe the flamenco thing is on a low at the moment but one day you will see something and it will all come back on a ' i need to do this now ' basis ....
I still have all my jazz guitar stuff and in fact I was play some the other day , just for a change of harmony really , one day you will be back ....

Anyway you can be on this site to help out and stay in touch with your frreids etc..yes?

And thanks for sticking it out on the CAntiñas challenge , maybe hearing some of us struggle ( me ) will make you think your not too bad at all...[:-]




BarkellWH -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 15:10:03)

I actually think you are smart to de-emphasize the commitment to flamenco, given the other possibilities in your life, Kozz. Unless one intends to play professionally, there is no need to proceed full-bore attempting to learn flamenco at the expense of other, equally important, facets of life. I continue to play and take lessons, but I know the limits of my ability, and I do it for my own enjoyment. It is fun to play once in awhile when friends are together, and it is fun to play alone for a bit of mental therapy. But there is no need to practice two or three hours a day unless you intend to pursue it seriously.

Relax and enjoy your life, and let flamenco guitar be one facet to call upon for enjoyment. Travel, reading, your pursuit of electronics, the job in India, all of these things will bring you joy. Flamenco (or any other activity, for that matter) can become an unhealthy obsession, pursued at the expense of other, equally important activities. Sometimes it is best to let go of such an obsession and relax.

Cheers,

Bill




Gummy -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 15:33:17)

quote:

Sometimes it is best to let go of such an obsession and relax.


Indeed. I sold my golf clubs a couple years ago. What a relief. I no longer feel guilty when going past a course. No need to worry about going to the range or taking a lesson...
There's only so much time in life, we can't do everything.




Morante -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 16:11:11)

Don't worry about it Kozz. I gave up flamenco guitar when my great friend and great cantaor José Millán died: the Gerundino is in a wardrobe somewhere. But, while I returned to playing blues, I still listen to cante.

When I left Ireland, I had to give up fishing for wild trout, which was practically my life. Flamenco was the compensation then.

Life moves in cycles which you cannot predict. Who knows, we might end up fishing or playing guitar together or learning to cook, or............




edguerin -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 17:17:04)

Ah, fellow palmero!
Namaste.
But all things repeat themselves, so you'll probably be back to flamenco in a decade or so [:D]
And you'll be so much better then, because of all the life-experience and karma you'll have aquired...
Good luck




Escribano -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 17:23:49)

I know the feeling Kozz. I have much less time since going freelance and only picked up the guitar again recently. So now I dabble. Have fun in India.




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 17:49:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: koenie17

Hey man!!

Don´t give up Kozz! Just take it easy for a while. I know it can be really frustrating every now and then. But that´s no reason for giving up. I think everyone of us feels like you sometimes! Maybe you should try something new? Isn´t there a place in eindhoven where you can play together with some guitarist or even better with a cantaor? I know there are a couple of places in Amsterdam. Or take some lessons with a good guitarist! Just something to light up the spark again!
You have come too far to give up now!!

Veel geluk in India man!

Groetjes


Thanks Koenie,
I've been in kinda like situation before, this just feels different!
Eindhoven is not the most inspireing place to be for flamenco, Amsterdam was really great when I was still with my ex.
Maybe it just takes to blow up a few resistors to get the light shining again. [:)]




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 17:53:31)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gummy

I have a similar situation. I'm going to play some rumbas and electric guitar for awhile. I still read the forum often because I enjoy the community and reading about people who study guitar. Have you seen the preview for live 9 and Push? They look good. Good luck with your synth!


Hee Gummy,
Enjoy your outdoor experience also!
I will logon now and then to see whats goin on.

I've seen only a small preview of Live9, hope to see some more of it because I am not convinced yet.
You have to chech Aalto by Madronalabs and its wooden touch sensitive controller....wood sound so much better as plastic [;)]




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 17:59:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

I actually think you are smart to de-emphasize the commitment to flamenco, given the other possibilities in your life, Kozz. Unless one intends to play professionally, there is no need to proceed full-bore attempting to learn flamenco at the expense of other, equally important, facets of life. I continue to play and take lessons, but I know the limits of my ability, and I do it for my own enjoyment. It is fun to play once in awhile when friends are together, and it is fun to play alone for a bit of mental therapy. But there is no need to practice two or three hours a day unless you intend to pursue it seriously.

Relax and enjoy your life, and let flamenco guitar be one facet to call upon for enjoyment. Travel, reading, your pursuit of electronics, the job in India, all of these things will bring you joy. Flamenco (or any other activity, for that matter) can become an unhealthy obsession, pursued at the expense of other, equally important activities. Sometimes it is best to let go of such an obsession and relax.

Cheers,

Bill

Thanks Bill,
What you describe is actually the proces I've been goin thru.
I hope that the acceptence of my limitations towards flamenco playing eventually will bring some joy back when I'm ready for it.
Hopefully the India experience won't bring me the tabla virus,...a collegue of mine who was there last year allready gave me an address of a teacher [&:]




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 18:06:06)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Don't worry about it Kozz. I gave up flamenco guitar when my great friend and great cantaor José Millán died: the Gerundino is in a wardrobe somewhere. But, while I returned to playing blues, I still listen to cante.

When I left Ireland, I had to give up fishing for wild trout, which was practically my life. Flamenco was the compensation then.

Life moves in cycles which you cannot predict. Who knows, we might end up fishing or playing guitar together or learning to cook, or............

Thanks for you kind words Morante!
Life indeed moves in cycles, strange thing though is it sometimes harder to accept than other times.
To be honest, I've never fished but seems like a perfect activity sharing stories and have a drink!
I'm still glad I have had the opportunity to enjoy cante, which I didn't know it existed before I got bitten by the flamenco bug [:)]




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 18:12:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

Ah, fellow palmero!
Namaste.
But all things repeat themselves, so you'll probably be back to flamenco in a decade or so [:D]
And you'll be so much better then, because of all the life-experience and karma you'll have aquired...
Good luck

Ola Ed,
Yeah, I keep my clothes in a plastic, will be handy in a decade.
Last week I watched our palmas experience again we had in Amsterdam...oh we were so rhytmically [:D]
Who knows brings the experience a Hello World shoutout [;)]




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 18:19:32)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

I know the feeling Kozz. I have much less time since going freelance and only picked up the guitar again recently. So now I dabble. Have fun in India.

Thanks Simon,
I really feel bad we're not able to meet at Boot Camp!

Actually I was suprised you picked up the guitar, or at least more noticable on the foro, and actually thought freelancing would have given you more time! But than again, freelance and more free time isn't actually a perfect combination, which for me is still a big barrier to make jump and start something for myself.




Escribano -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 18:24:02)

quote:

Actually I was suprised you picked up the guitar, or at least more noticable on the foro, and actually thought freelancing would have given you more time!


It does, in a way... but then I get intense periods or either doing a lot of work or looking for work. Not sure how long I will continue before falling into the clutches of another multi-national, but I am having fun for the present.




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 18:32:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Kiko

Things just come and go in waves so maybe the flamenco thing is on a low at the moment but one day you will see something and it will all come back on a ' i need to do this now ' basis ....
I still have all my jazz guitar stuff and in fact I was play some the other day , just for a change of harmony really , one day you will be back ....

Anyway you can be on this site to help out and stay in touch with your frreids etc..yes?

And thanks for sticking it out on the CAntiñas challenge , maybe hearing some of us struggle ( me ) will make you think your not too bad at all...[:-]

You're absolutle right kiki!
It seems most have something to fall back on, some on other guitar forms, some on something else.
Ofcourse I'll be logging on once in a while.

The thing about the Cantinas challenge which I enjoyed most for now was actually the challenge you organizing it! [;)]
I'd read some comments from you on other challenges, and I thought "Now I'm gonna get you"!
But you totally proved me wrong, you're doin an excellent job! [:)]
Me not keeping my word would be the worst thing to do, and being disrespectfull to you too!

Indeed I'm looking forward to the entries!




El Kiko -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 19:15:15)

Hmmm , I wasnt really organising the Cantñas challenge , or I didnt set out to . I just thought , at the time the posts were a bit stale and there was not much movment so I suggested it , after that it went by itself a bit , then came back to me ,,, that was frightening as I thought someone else would pick up on doing it and I would just help

Anyway , so long as everyone has a good time , learns something about their own playing and gets feed back from the others involved , then everyone wins ...

Really thinking about it , I am surprised that more people are not in as it is a great opportunity to find out about how others hear you , and make a few freinds too...

Anyway your still needed here ,,... even though you have chosen the path that will lead you to kraftwerk and Stockhausen etc......[:D]




Ricardo -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 19:49:06)

on flip side I have decided to spend more time with flamenco than I have. More time on foro and with my guitar in hand, listening etc...problem is only so many hours in the day and these pesky 7 days of the week thing are so limiting to what I want to put in.




Anders Eliasson -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 21:29:31)

Kozz

I more or less gave up flamenco guitar 9 month ago. Reasons:

*... I got tired of the whole scene. It wasnt really giving me much anymore.

* I started devellopping pain in some left hand fingers 2 years ago, and it worries me.

* I started playing the violin after a 20 years break,

I still pick up the guitar here and then. Its a part of my job. I´ll see if I can play 15 min. a day or even just 10 min. Its nice to feel the instrument, but I´m not really into falsetas and other funky things anymore. I find it boring.

For me its not so important what i play, but it sure is important that I play and its been so for some 40 years. So go ahead with your soldering and electronic music. Maybe one day when we are old enough, we can get together and make some cross over with electronic music and acid violin.[:D]




johnnefastis -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 22:40:08)

Hey Kozz, not chatted much but I do hope to see you around here in the future, I make electronic music instruments of sorts and think there is so much potential for flamenco / electronic crossovers.... I look forward to hearing something with the Indian flavour too.

Cheers




Doitsujin -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 4 2012 22:51:21)

Life sucks kozz.. I wish you much fun in india!

Here I designed a meme for you..hehe



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Leñador -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 3:12:36)

Do what makes you happy, the urge may come back stronger then ever years down the road. I nearly sold all my guitars 7 years ago but I held on to them....just because I guess. Didn't touch 'em for 5 years, now I practice probably more then I ever did.....just cus it makes me happy, if it didn't I'd go do something else.




Ruphus -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 8:39:18)

I suppose, what this thread might have in common to all of us, is that it makes you sorry.

After all it feels as if someone like you is giving up on a racy senorita whose sweetness turned out to be femme fatal´s medusa. The unveiling of a bogeyman´s potential threat smoldering deep in our hearts. Potentially threatening even to highly advanced players.

In view of advanced musicians who gave up playing, I used to think that they might have never been passionate to begin with. Maybe lurked in by unrelated images of making music, like giving colour to oneself, freeing from geek being, meeting chicks, etc.

But maybe resignation can hit the passionate too. Maybe even for being too passionate in the sense of being overly demanding.
And possibly sometimes you don´t even need yet to have set the benchmark too high, when you wittness exceptional cases of some mastering the guitar incredibly already after ~ 2 years or so. ( And before me going into general physiologics and ergonomics, defying the common "to each his own technique"-BS ...)


Whether enduring or dropping might also depend on the "glass half filled" or "glass half emptied" estimation.

As an autodidact who completely messed up after seeing Segovia on TV, from then on fighting his own limbs until entering state of focal dystonia which again I am trying to defeat since 7 or so years now ... I have had too many reasons to quit.

There has been appreciation by other guitarists and folks of the music business for certain achievements due and despite faked virtuosity, yet not leaving me satisfied; ever feeling sorts of like an original con-man.


What keeps me rolling the Sisyphean rock still must be just the immediate thrill with the sonics.
( I am an audiophil sucker who just is taking modern music pedagogics statement as premium that says such affiliation was indicating talent in the same time. - A talent gone astray for that matter, but whatever.)

This is not to say that I wouldn´t promptly engage an inspiring teacher and use systematic intelligence if I could go back in time, enyoing a so much more rewarding guitar career then ... Not saying, hence, that I was content with a messed up status quo and exemplary case of inefficiency through decades ...

But that appreciation, appreciation for the magic of the instrument, the lust felt when flesh leaves the strings, when the corpus talks to the diaphragm, is the engine of my passion.

Having stopped the pseudo virtuoso at some point in time, now since years focussing on mere but healthy technique to build up from scratch, and yet, even without the just-making-music sessioning, the sonics with mere technical exercising are stimulating enough to keep me going.

The times with hypothetical options of possibly emerging as the new talent out there must have been maybe the first three years or so, before adapting completely unergonomical postures. Only 3 years of a guitar playing path of nearly 40 years now.

Years without fancying, but with growing appreciation for progress.

In a next life I would be knowing all too well how to start out intelligently, without meaning to abort humble gains of the here and now.

And while respecting and valueing the depth and humbleness that precede a decision to quit: It feels like a pity when I hear of advanced player´s withdrawal. Either for their loss of musical proficiency or of their invested time.


Ruphus




El Kiko -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 8:51:02)

quote:

Also I accepted an internal job replacement to India for at least a half a year which probably will be extended to a year.


Does this mean also you will be getting a sitar ?? of tabla stuff....that could be good in the flamenco world as well ...




Anders Eliasson -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 11:59:10)

quote:

Does this mean also you will be getting a sitar ?? of tabla stuff....that could be good in the flamenco world as well ...



No no no... When Kozz goes to India he´ll start getting together with all these clean neohippies and after a while he´ll start making 'mystical electronic new age acid pop'. I will then join him for a few sit ins with my violin. And I might even sing a few morning mantras as well. ooooommmmmmm




El Kiko -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 12:44:11)

quote:

mystical electronic new age acid pop'

So you will need an electric Violin to fit in .. plenty of delay , chorus and reverb etc...
like this .......



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kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 17:01:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

quote:

Actually I was suprised you picked up the guitar, or at least more noticable on the foro, and actually thought freelancing would have given you more time!


It does, in a way... but then I get intense periods or either doing a lot of work or looking for work. Not sure how long I will continue before falling into the clutches of another multi-national, but I am having fun for the present.

I really admire the decission you made leaving from that big Multinational because of not agreeing which way they went, if I remember well.
Have fun, and I am looking forward to your Cantinas entry!




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 17:04:44)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

on flip side I have decided to spend more time with flamenco than I have. More time on foro and with my guitar in hand, listening etc...problem is only so many hours in the day and these pesky 7 days of the week thing are so limiting to what I want to put in.

Haha, I remember the days when that was my goal!
But you seem to be made for it, it just runs through all your veins.




kozz -> RE: I decided to give up on flamenco on regular basis (Nov. 5 2012 17:14:39)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson
Kozz
I more or less gave up flamenco guitar 9 month ago. Reasons:
*... I got tired of the whole scene. It wasnt really giving me much anymore.
* I started devellopping pain in some left hand fingers 2 years ago, and it worries me.
* I started playing the violin after a 20 years break,

I still pick up the guitar here and then. Its a part of my job. I´ll see if I can play 15 min. a day or even just 10 min. Its nice to feel the instrument, but I´m not really into falsetas and other funky things anymore. I find it boring.

For me its not so important what i play, but it sure is important that I play and its been so for some 40 years. So go ahead with your soldering and electronic music. Maybe one day when we are old enough, we can get together and make some cross over with electronic music and acid violin.[:D]

Hee Anders,
I had some kinda feeling about it, but not for those reasons you mention.
It can be tiresome if the scene isn't inspireing anymore...for me was it the house scene at the moment it started to hit the charts.
Take care of your hands, you need them to shape the wood, wheter its a boat, violin or guitar!

Deal! We get together and go crossover, no boundaries!
Here's some inspiration, not a violin though but a beautifull instrument anyway:
http://vimeo.com/51623857

...and look at all the knobs [:)]




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