Bouncing hand during picado (Full Version)

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rombsix -> Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 1:35:36)



I feel that my hand bounces too much when doing picado, and that the bouncing slows me down. Does this make sense?

The video was meant to go to Orhan, but I might as well use the same one here since making a new one isn't going to show much new ideas.

I see Paco de Lucia, JG, Grisha, etc. doing picado and I can't see their hand move/bounce with each stroke.

Any advice?



kudo -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 1:43:44)

maybe beacuse your arm is resting on the guitar and not raised from the shoulder?



guitarbuddha -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 2:19:23)

Hi there, I would be more worried about the fact that the tip joint of the fingers are collapsing in your strokes.

I think the raised shoulder is a tension habit and although a lot of people get away with it at least one prominent player has ended up with a really nasty focal distonia as a result of an unchecked shoulder raising and no longer has a picado.

At a distance it is really hard to give advice on picado as the problems change for individuals fluidly as their playing develops, but in order to push down you have to be bracing the weight of the hand(and indeed introduce finger stiffness) so that the force you apply doesnt cause the hand to lift or the tip joint to bend.

But maybe let accuracy be your guide, if you are dropping a lot of notes at performance speed then there is a problem. If you need more speed then maybe the technique has to change but that will happen as a consequence of your musical development . I am not sure that the reverse often occurs.

Sorry if this seems presumptuous, but I am a little drunk, feel free to ignore me.
D.



Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 2:29:01)

I. Still feel picado is not achievable for all people . Perhaps try using the bounce , let the bounce become a tremor . Or you can turn to flickado moo ha ha ha ha .



Dave K -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 3:24:17)

quote:

Hi there, I would be more worried about the fact that the tip joint of the fingers are collapsing in your strokes


I agree with guitarbudda - very inefficient, take care of that first and you may discover you don't have a problem.
Cheers,
Dave



Miguel de Maria -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 4:19:44)

Doutor, if your hand bounces, then some of the energy that should go to the stroke is going to moving your forearm. It would seem that the solution would involve optimizing your coordination so that more of your energy goes into depressing the string and not moving your forearm. I do not think relaxed tip joints would cause the problem; in fact, relaxing my tip joints helped this issue for me. (although I don't play very loud)

Disclaimer: I am a little tipsy too. Kim Crawford Pinot Noir, 2011.



theblackcat -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 6:38:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dave K

quote:

Hi there, I would be more worried about the fact that the tip joint of the fingers are collapsing in your strokes


I agree with guitarbudda - very inefficient, take care of that first and you may discover you don't have a problem.
Cheers,
Dave

Very much this. I think this is the first thing that PDL corrected in Vicente Amigo's playing when he saw him right?



theblackcat -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 6:44:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Doutor, if your hand bounces, then some of the energy that should go to the stroke is going to moving your forearm. It would seem that the solution would involve optimizing your coordination so that more of your energy goes into depressing the string and not moving your forearm. I do not think relaxed tip joints would cause the problem; in fact, relaxing my tip joints helped this issue for me. (although I don't play very loud)

Disclaimer: I am a little tipsy too. Kim Crawford Pinot Noir, 2011.

I think that could be because of the incorrect alignment of the finger joints. When looking at Ramzi's hand from the camera angle, the first joints of his picking fingers should always be concave to press down the strings and not collapse under the force/tension.



Don Dionisio -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 9:41:57)

I think you should take a lesson via Skype with Grisha or Ricardo.
It will be worth the money and will help you continue on your path
to improving your technique.



rodrigovalt -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 11:33:00)

Hi Ramzi!

In the beginning of the video it was bouncing more in comparison to the rest. I noticed that you were not resting your forearm in the guitar ( it was completely on the air). When i do picado i always rest my forearm on the border of the guitar, in my opinion it helps you control your movement better.

Cheers



BarkellWH -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 12:24:18)

Ramzi,

In my opinion you should rest your upper arm on the side of the guitar so that the edge between the side and front (soundboard) does not dig into either your upper or forearm. Only you can determine if you have too much bounce in your hand, but my long-time flamenco guru, Paco de Malaga, taught me to maintain a steady hand, regardless what I am playing: picado, rasgeado, tremolo, etc. The more you allow your hand to "bounce" or move around, the less control you have. It has worked for me. (At least it has worked for me to the extent that my limited abilities allow!)

Cheers,

Bill



etta -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 13:22:30)

Try straightening the two fingers and use a hammer effect pushing more down as the string is released. For me, less use of the end finger joint and more use of the finger/hand joint is very natural, gives greater power as well as speed and accuracy.



ToddK -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 14:31:56)

I dont think that's anything to be concerned about Romb.

Think more about your tone, and your rhythm.



Ricardo -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 15:02:29)

i dont' feel it's bouncing much. Nor is the tip joint flexing TOO much (ie hyper flexing backward...it's supposed to flex a tiny bit from curved to straight when playing.). I think the movement you have is not efficient enough as you like and therefore you are not going to get more speed. You need to focus on the same old thing we always talk about...STACATO....and you will gain efficiancy control speed, less bounce less flex less tension etc etc....The bounce is just your perception as a result of too much un needed movement of the fingers. Stacato takes care of that.

here you see some bounce at 2:30 onward as necessary. Middle tip joint has to fllex a bit more than index that he keeps pretty stiff. But his hand and shirst sleeve must bounce a little, not possible to do this and have only fingers moving.


Ricardo



Elie -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 3 2012 16:53:05)

I like your picados, your pinky is awesome
I think you should be happy with them rather than concerned [:)]



rombsix -> RE: Bouncing hand during picado (Nov. 4 2012 20:30:57)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.



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