kominak -> Midrange quality in a guitar? (Oct. 30 2012 7:45:41)
I wanted to ask this for a long time - midrange quality of the sound.
I kind of understand how the quality of the top, braces and bridge affect basses and trebles. But how these components affect the texture of the midrange?
I only built one guitar so far: I wanted a Reyes-styled guitar, but at the time I didn't know about Tom Blackshear's Reyes plan so I followed Bill Lewis's plan from LMI - a pretty standard 7-fan system, I think. Due to some error when copying the plan I ended up with a slightly larger body - similar to Tom's Reyes plan. By accident or luck the overall guitar balance is similar to the reyes clips on youtube - slightly softer, full basses, sweet trebles. What is missing is that slightly nasal, vocal-like midrange quality, that you can hear very clearly here:
How to achieve this? If you don't like that particular nasal sound, please share what are you doing to avoid this kind of sound - that will help, too. What can it be? The design without closing braces? Some special graduation of the top?
Thanks a lot for your input!
Ricardo -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Oct. 30 2012 14:16:28)
Same maker and model but would you say it's the same sound you looking for? I think it's quite a different voice....partly player, but main thing is all guitars have the same type of voice in general, and it's a see saw interms of getting the right balance. Something will suffer if you focus on only one detail of the sound...in the end its all a combination of elements. In the end, in blind tests it is not so easy to distinguish guitar builds IMO.
Ricardo
Leñador -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Oct. 30 2012 14:45:07)
Could some of that nasaly mid-range quality have been brought out more in post? Vicente's recordings don't tend to sound completely naked.............
Tom Blackshear -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Oct. 30 2012 16:01:01)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kominak
I wanted to ask this for a long time - midrange quality of the sound.
I kind of understand how the quality of the top, braces and bridge affect basses and trebles. But how these components affect the texture of the midrange?
I only built one guitar so far: I wanted a Reyes-styled guitar, but at the time I didn't know about Tom Blackshear's Reyes plan so I followed Bill Lewis's plan from LMI - a pretty standard 7-fan system, I think. Due to some error when copying the plan I ended up with a slightly larger body - similar to Tom's Reyes plan. By accident or luck the overall guitar balance is similar to the reyes clips on youtube - slightly softer, full basses, sweet trebles. What is missing is that slightly nasal, vocal-like midrange quality, that you can hear very clearly here:
How to achieve this? If you don't like that particular nasal sound, please share what are you doing to avoid this kind of sound - that will help, too. What can it be? The design without closing braces? Some special graduation of the top?
Thanks a lot for your input!
If you are interested I'd be happy to answer your question on my thread about fine tuning a top, for the sake of uniformity, not an ego thing.
kominak -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Oct. 31 2012 8:28:39)
Ricardo, I can hear the quality I'm after in Tomatito's Aguadulce album (one of my favourites) - especially in slower pieces like Porque Tu Lo Vales. On the other hand in Pedro Sierra's Nikelao album, where I hear similarly "modern" voiced guitar, that quality is missing. So I thing it can be the "Reyes thing".
I understand there's always a compromise when the sound is concerned - I think VA and Tomatito gave up a lot of attributes asssociated with classic flamenco sound (brightness, percusiveness, fast attack even on bass strings, short sustain) in exchange for that vocal-like, singing quality (my theory). My taste might change in the future, but right now I really like that sound.
Ricardo -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Nov. 4 2012 20:09:26)
quote:
I understand there's always a compromise when the sound is concerned - I think VA and Tomatito gave up a lot of attributes asssociated with classic flamenco sound (brightness, percusiveness, fast attack even on bass strings, short sustain) in exchange for that vocal-like, singing quality (my theory). My taste might change in the future, but right now I really like that sound.
Careful about being influenced by the music and recording itself. I was always confused who was playing what on Vicente's duet with PDL, despite the different guitars (Reyes blanca vs Conde Negra) at the points they trade off melody it still sounds like the same guy playing. I think anyone could be tricked by a blind test as to what guitar is what. Simply KNOWING a certain guitar make influences what the ear is looking for sound wise.
Ricardo
Tom Blackshear -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Nov. 6 2012 14:13:41)
quote:
ORIGINAL: kominak
How to achieve this? If you don't like that particular nasal sound, please share what are you doing to avoid this kind of sound - that will help, too. What can it be? The design without closing braces? Some special graduation of the top?
Thanks a lot for your input!
I would stand by my previous post on another thread but to add that this particular sound would be a mutation, not bad, from the Reyes models he builds.
If you take the 2nd and 3rd treble fan brace and taper thinner toward the sound hole, and then work the outside bass fan thinner toward the sound hole, this will cause a wider separation in the tone and flatten out the feel for the right hand. This helps you to dig in better with the right hand finger styles, as it causes more string snap rather than leaving the strings with the tendency to bounce.
This generally works with thinner tops to control the articulation and top tension rather than building a standard thicker top to control stiffness of the strings.
n85ae -> RE: Midrange quality in a guitar? (Nov. 6 2012 16:32:41)
Hmm, I'm wondering about what you say. My Negra and two Blanca's all sound very different from one another. I can clearly hear the difference between them absolutely no doubt which is which. Once you run it through a mic though all bets are off.
Two are Pedro De Miguel 27F's (Blanca and Negra) and they are VERY different from one to the other. Then I have a Carillo Blanca and it has an entirely different sound from the PDM Blanca, but definetly not a Negra.
Regards, Jeff
quote:
Same maker and model but would you say it's the same sound you looking for? I think it's quite a different voice....partly player, but main thing is all guitars have the same type of voice in general, and it's a see saw interms of getting the right balance. Something will suffer if you focus on only one detail of the sound...in the end its all a combination of elements. In the end, in blind tests it is not so easy to distinguish guitar builds IMO.
