RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Full Version)

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rombsix -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 27 2012 4:40:52)

quote:

I think it may help if you spend some time exercising: swimming, pilates, tai chi, yoga, etc.


I plan to do so once I get into the more tolerable work schedule of this year. Now, I'm having to do 80+ hours per week, and it's proving difficult to do much exercise. But I agree, working out will surely help.

Cheers!



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 27 2012 5:06:16)

Yes. Swimming laps reduced the pain in my neck. And swimming laps now reduces the numbness in my left hand. Even though they tell me it's a nerve problem, not blood circulation.

RNJ



Richard Jernigan -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 27 2012 5:16:31)

Ruphus, we're never going to agree! The reason is I'm just as hard-headed as you are.[:D]

Classical players rest their forearms on the edge of the guitar. Most flamenco players don't, most of the time.

I follow suit.

I'm right and you're wrong!! So there![:D][:D][:D]

But I'm sure that over a few beers I could give you a little demonstration, and you would immediately mend the error of you ways.[:D]

Or at least we could have a little fun drinking beer...

Here in Austin it has at last dropped into the low 50s F (10 C). Time for a sip of straight single malt Scotch for a nightcap.

RNJ



Ruphus -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 27 2012 8:38:00)

We would be having fun drinking beer, after I made you acknowledge, that sticking to the question of quantity of resting makes no stringent response to a fact of improved ergonomics with the smoothed and elevated edge of a guitars upper bout.

For, at "best" with your escaped plot you could argue to never be needing an arm rest, which would yet not make reason for being explicitely against it ( and bringing all available blund prove to the table / neglecting by all means ).

Down there a logically trained person like you knows very well to be conducting the decomposing locomotive principle, Richard, and that I am having you at the ... what´s its name again, gentlemen? [:D]

Anyway, fun with the beer we surely would be having. And man, I could certainly do with some, after years now of vastly either nada or hooch.

It´s got chilly here too. ´ turned on the heating on Wednesday.

Ruphus



estebanana -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 28 2012 0:54:35)

I like armrests on chairs, but I always pick non arm rest chairs when I play guitar.
Arm rests are good in movie theater seats too, unless you want to hold hands with your girlfriend at the movie, in which case armrestless chairs are better.



Ruphus -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 28 2012 7:52:14)

I like Cuba Libre with limes, but that does not really effect guitar playing ergonomics. - Not for the fist 4 or 5 drinks at least.

Ruphus



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Oct. 28 2012 8:14:47)

Rombsix
Remember that many physical problems come from the inside. You can create whatever problem if you´re mentally up to it.
The most important thing is to relax.



orsonw -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 11:04:41)

Guitar for Ruphus with rounded edges.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Dragan-Musulin-Flamenco-Elite-Paco-De-Lucia-Cypresse-German-Spruce-OHC-/130839836172?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1e76a9760c



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



rombsix -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 11:13:42)

Nice! I wonder why all luthiers don't make guitar edges like that...



Escribano -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 11:49:20)

quote:

Nice! I wonder why all luthiers don't make guitar edges like that...


I would wager that it does not provide enough structural strength to the joint.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 14:41:15)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

He did this his entire career with no problems we know of and stil does at 65 years old.




I have to study it in detail to be sure but i had the impression he played picado a little more relaxed in the middle part of his career. As far as overall positional problems are concerned, an old schoolmate of mine recently devoted an article on the subject of how to sit properly. He favors the traditional way of playing, still adapted by Paco Peña. According to him both Vicente Amigo and Paco de Lucia suffer physical problems dude to the modern way of sitting, problems that only occurred after years and years of playing in that position. I have no reason to doubt him because i know for a fact he is a very very close friend of Vicente.



Ruphus -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 17:10:05)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

Guitar for Ruphus with rounded edges.


Looks nice and handy!

I suppose the top will have as much overlay as usual, and the static characteristics of the round are known already ( as outperforming mere edges).

Ruphus



bernd -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 22:09:22)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix
Nice! I wonder why all luthiers don't make guitar edges like that...

post been edited later
The reason is quite simple. Dragan Musulin holds an international protection of utility patents on this design (although he´s already retiered, I think 10 years ago). I had my fatal bad experience with him. So if anybody would have the oppertunity to make a deal with him, I may strictly advice to deny. Btw. I never would pay the price on ebay. 6299 £ makes about 7244 € for a minimum 12 years old guitar. Before the € currency started, the price was 10000 DM which makes just 5000 €.

I had played this guitar and really can say it´s a rocket. I still remember the brochure in that Mr Musulin listened in Madrid while Paco de Lucía was playing the guitar, but this couldn´t help making a succesful demand among the flamenco guitarists. If I had the choice, I´d better go to Anders ordering his guitar.



rombsix -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 22:21:48)

quote:

I have no reason to doubt him because i know for a fact he is a very very close friend of Vicente.


We know that vicente got surgical intervention done on his back... It was in an article on flamenco-world some time ago I think.

quote:

The reason is quite simple. Dragan Musulin holds an international protection of utility patents on this design (although he´s already retiered, I think 10 years ago). I had my fatal bad experience with him. So if anybody would have the oppertunity to make a deal with him, I may strictly advice to deny.


So wait - you're saying if anyone makes a guitar like that, he will get sued? Did that happen with you?



Ricardo -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 22:22:54)

quote:

According to him both Vicente Amigo and Paco de Lucia suffer physical problems dude to the modern way of sitting, problems that only occurred after years and years of playing in that position. I have no reason to doubt him because i know for a fact he is a very very close friend of Vicente.


Objective test huh? How about Peña rarely used amplification, and PDL and Vicente always used it? I have said a million times that playing close miked ends up hurting alot because you don't get to move around even a hair without changing the sound...or rather you have to move your body AROUND a stationary guitar in order to avoid discomfort and stiffness. I use both positions and never had problems (knock on wood...well I do golpes!) except when I used to fight with the mic set up. Plug in guitar made a HUGE difference. But in a juerga I can sit however with little thought, for many hours more than on stage where we naturally tense up more.

Ricardo



rombsix -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 22:26:48)

quote:

Objective test huh? How about Peña rarely used amplification, and PDL and Vicente always used it? I have said a million times that playing close miked ends up hurting alot because you don't get to move around even a hair without changing the sound...or rather you have to move your body AROUND a stationary guitar in order to avoid discomfort and stiffness. I use both positions and never had problems (knock on wood...well I do golpes!) except when I used to fight with the mic set up. Plug in guitar made a HUGE difference. But in a juerga I can sit however with little thought, for many hours more than on stage where we naturally tense up more.


What percentage of the total amount of time spent playing in cross-legged position is actually spent in front of a closely-placed microphone (for Paco and Vicente)?



Ricardo -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 22:39:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Objective test huh? How about Peña rarely used amplification, and PDL and Vicente always used it? I have said a million times that playing close miked ends up hurting alot because you don't get to move around even a hair without changing the sound...or rather you have to move your body AROUND a stationary guitar in order to avoid discomfort and stiffness. I use both positions and never had problems (knock on wood...well I do golpes!) except when I used to fight with the mic set up. Plug in guitar made a HUGE difference. But in a juerga I can sit however with little thought, for many hours more than on stage where we naturally tense up more.


What percentage of the total amount of time spent playing in cross-legged position is actually spent in front of a closely-placed microphone (for Paco and Vicente)?



Well just think of the amount of time for concert tour



Sean -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 4 2013 23:19:06)

Most guitar patents are complete horse sh!t. People always claim to have invented something that someone else did like a hundred years before them. Did you know scalloped fingerboards were invented in 1974? No? Me either but that's when Mr Muncy of Ohio patented it. I wonder if he ever even made a guitar in his life.
I can guarantee count Dracula didn't invent anything either, let alone rounded over bindings.



Erik van Goch -> RE: Your experience with / thoughts on bevels and / or armrests (Feb. 5 2013 23:03:30)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo


Objective test huh? How about Peña rarely used amplification, and PDL and Vicente always used it? I have said a million times that playing close miked ends up hurting alot because you don't get to move around even a hair without changing the sound...or rather you have to move your body AROUND a stationary guitar in order to avoid discomfort and stiffness.
Ricardo


You might have a point there. Paco Pena started using mic's in the late 80ties, probably dude to his contact with people like my father. That doesn't take away the fact that the uneven body-position of the modern day position might be a problem on it's own. In the 50ties my father performed regularly standing on 1 leg only (like bandoneon players)...that didn't do him much good on the long term as well.



flyhere -> [Deleted] (Feb. 6 2013 5:27:22)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 18 2013 3:16:30



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