Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - Lutherie: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=22
- - - Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string?: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=212226



Message

ralexander -> Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 15:19:34)

Hi All - my background is in steel string guitar, and I was wondering last night if any of our resident luthiers have built steel string guitars or have aspirations to do so? Would love to see pics and hear details from anyone who has tried their hand at this.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 15:25:49)

I havent, but would like to do so in the future. Right now I have my hands full with the violin. And there are a few other steelstrung instruments I would like to build as well. (mandolin, octave mandolin, mandola,) And maybe a celtic harp.



ralexander -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 16:05:16)

Hey Anders, what style do you think you'd build? Also, I'm curious - are there many steel string guitarists in Spain? How popular is instrumental fingerstyle type music or singer/songwriter type stuff?



Stephen Eden -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 18:00:37)

I have had thoughts about building a steel string guitar recently. The thing that has put me off most is that there are two very good builders who I know quite well and wouldn't want them to think I was trying to move in on there turf. On the other hand If I asked they would probably help me out with there vast knowledge.

I would probably build something like a '000' so fairly small and pretty classical looking IIRC. Either that or a Jumbo.

There are soo many instruments I would love to have a pop at, but, I have too many Spanish guitars to build right now before I try and embark on learning something new.



prd1 -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 18:52:44)

I've built one steel string, Spruce top, Awoura back and sides (an offcut was used for a plain matching rosette), Mahogany neck. I made it with 660mm scale length and a Spanish style heel joint. I'll try and get some pics next time I'm home (work away unfortunately). I used a Martin X bracing pattern but kept the top quite thing for a steeler.

I didn't set the neck angle to the optimum for a steel string which led to a sequence of events to try and get the guitar comfortable to play...I had to reduce the bridge height to get a decent action, this meant a loss of volume due to the real shallow break angle over the bridge - so I then burrowed down to seat the pins lower, which led to a loss of bridge mass and a worry about strength at the bridge so I added an extra bridge reinforcement on the inside of the soundboard. The result was quite good but next time I'd add some shims when joining the neck to get a better geometry.

I've also made a couple of steel string mandolins - again with a Spanish style neck joint - I had some Walnut and Spruce wedges that needed a purpose in life.



Gimar -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 19:03:36)

I've build 2 steelstring guitars, both OM types with 30's martin style cscooped bracing pattern, 1 in euro spruce and indian rosewood, the other sitka spruce and cocobolo.






Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 19:30:56)

The one laying down is very classic and beautifull. Very nice indeed. Is that the sitka one?
The other one, I´m no so fond about. Its a bit naked IMHO and the stripy soundboard is very dominating.

Which one sounds and play the best and what did you use for finish?



Gimar -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 19:41:27)

Anders, yes the one laying down is the sitka/cocobolo

both play fairly similar, the sitka top needs to be played a bit harder to be at its best, but you get alot of volume and headroom compared to the euro spruce guitar wich tends to distort a bit when played hard.

the indian rosewood one sound pretty normal compared to the cocobolo because cocobolo has such a glassy ringy harmonic range. I wont judge wich one is better, they both have their pro's and con's

both finished in shellack



Escribano -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 19:59:45)

The one laying down is just beautiful and I love the tuners in their slots, but I agree with Anders on the other. For my taste maybe some ivory purfling to continue the line from the fingerboard? Go on, you can still get the router out [8|]

p.s. why can't pegs hold nylon strings behind the bridge like that?



TANúñez -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 21:47:46)

I have an OM that I'm getting ready to start. I'd like to get more into steel as you get a broader palette to work with. Many tonewoods and aesthetics that typically aren't used in nylon strings.



jshelton5040 -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 23:00:01)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralexander
Would love to see pics and hear details from anyone who has tried their hand at this.

I built a few about 40 years ago. Don't remember how many maybe 5 or 6. It didn't take long to realize that since I played nylon string guitars exclusively it was kind of pointless to build steel strings. I couldn't play one well enough to judge whether it was any good. All the ones I built had radial bracing with soundholes on each side of the fingerboard on the upper bouts. What a waste of time[:D].



estebanana -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 4 2012 23:06:17)

quote:

p.s. why can't pegs hold nylon strings behind the bridge like that?


They can, you have to buy 'ball end' nylon strings, also called Folk Guitar Nylon strings. [8|]

I'm planing to build a Santos pattern steel string joined at the 12th fret and X braced. Pegheds steel string pegs.



Jeff Highland -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 0:13:11)

Here's my latest, built on my Classical/Flamenco Plantilla.
Engleman top Falcate braced, Queensland Maple back and sides, Narra neck 13th fret joint, Koa and Tasmanian Blackwood trim, African blackwood fretboard EVO frets and K and K pure western pickups
Full rich sound through the range and a Dreadnought killer in volume







Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Jeff Highland -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 0:14:49)

Current build is Selmer petit bouche inspired



ralexander -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 0:31:19)

SEden - hope you're able to fit one in at some point, I'm really enjoying seeing a variety of projects on here (S.Faulk's Uke & Tambura, Anders' Violin etc).

prd1 - Awoura, that one is new to me. I love longer scales on acoustic guitars, it works really great for me as I use a lot of low tunings. Sounds like that guitar was a good learning experience, that's a bonus [;)]

Gimar - nice!! I prefer the look of the Sitka/Coco as well, but I have a soft spot for that combo hehe. Is it my eyes, or does the Sitka have top purfling, while the Euro top does not?

Tom - cool, please share pics here if you can! I'm mostly a jumbo fan, but I love a good OM - had a Santa Cruz years ago that changed my perception of what a guitar that size was capable of. Have you chosen a wood combo? I'm always very interested in nylon guitars with non-traditional pairings, and wish more guys ventured off the beaten path in this regard.

John - haha! I hear you. I wonder where those guitars are now? Sounds like you'd rather not see them again anyway [:D]

Esteban - I would totally demo that for you, like, free of charge! Yep. I hope you'll get funky with the material choices. I've never seen a steel string with pegheads, either.



ralexander -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 0:42:37)

Jeff - lovely stuff, the pics aren't doing it justice. I'd like to see some Gotoh 510s with black buttons against that headstock. I love Tasmanian Blackwood! Check out this guitar I once owned:

http://www.cornerstoneguitar.com/Zion_Lutz.html



Jeff Highland -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 1:38:13)

Nice looking Guitar Ralexander
The highly figured Tasmanian blackwood can be amazing.
Mine is actually QLD maple back and sides, Koa headplate, bridge and rosette with figured blackwood for the binding.
The maple sides are spectacular in person with almost a luminescence about them, but they fought me all the way with severe cupping during bending.
Worth it in the end.



TANúñez -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 2:06:52)

quote:

Tom - cool, please share pics here if you can! I'm mostly a jumbo fan, but I love a good OM - had a Santa Cruz years ago that changed my perception of what a guitar that size was capable of. Have you chosen a wood combo? I'm always very interested in nylon guitars with non-traditional pairings, and wish more guys ventured off the beaten path in this regard.


I have a Martin 000-28 that I love so I'm going to see how close I can get to it. It'll be Sitka spruce top and either East indian rosewood or Ovangkol back and sides. I think the reason certain woods aren't used for nylon is more due to the fact that some woods are just too dense and not so much the luthier not liking them. I'll post pics as it gets under way.



krichards -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 8:00:02)

I've made three steel strung guitars in recent years, all Martin types: a OOO, an OM type and an OM cutaway.
All three were commissions and I was very pleased with them, as were their owners, but the thing is, I have no desire to make any more.

It's a very different instrument, more heavily built because of the higher tensions, different construction method and of course the diffent musical culture it comes from.

They always feel to me, like the design is essentially for factory production, whereas the Spanish guitar is from an artisan, hand made tradition, which is much more appealing.
I know that is something of an over-simplification because both types of guitar can, and are, made in both ways, but for me, the Spanish guitar and its method of construction are much more beautiful and thats what motivates me.



Gimar -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 10:51:27)

@ Ralexander, Yeah the sitka/coco has some purfling, the other is just a plastic turtoise binding.

added a picture of the binding/purfling, and also the neck to headstock transition. The headstock is joined the standard way, I just shaped it like that because I wanted to do something different. I shaped the other guitars headstock transition to look like those 19th century guitars





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 15:18:40)

Sitka Spruce is just so yummy beautifull. I have a flamenco (my number 4) with sitka and it just gets darker and deeper looking.



ralexander -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 16:43:24)

quote:

Nice looking Guitar Ralexander
The highly figured Tasmanian blackwood can be amazing.
Mine is actually QLD maple back and sides, Koa headplate, bridge and rosette with figured blackwood for the binding.
The maple sides are spectacular in person with almost a luminescence about them, but they fought me all the way with severe cupping during bending.
Worth it in the end.


Hey Jeff, your bridge and rosette just reminded me of that guitar and I had to share. It had a Lutz spruce top and a 26" scale and sounded really great. Again, lovely looking guitar you made! Thanks for sharing.

quote:

I think the reason certain woods aren't used for nylon is more due to the fact that some woods are just too dense and not so much the luthier not liking them.


BRW is typically pretty dense, no? Because of that I'd expect to see more Madagascar, Honduran, Cocobolo, African Blackwood negras. And what about Mahogany for a blanca? Padauk is great as well, have seen a few negras using that including Andy's. I had 2 steel strings in Padauk and they were stellar. Fun to stare at the wild pores [8|]



ralexander -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 5 2012 16:53:15)

quote:

I've made three steel strung guitars in recent years, all Martin types: a OOO, an OM type and an OM cutaway.
All three were commissions and I was very pleased with them, as were their owners, but the thing is, I have no desire to make any more.

It's a very different instrument, more heavily built because of the higher tensions, different construction method and of course the diffent musical culture it comes from.

They always feel to me, like the design is essentially for factory production, whereas the Spanish guitar is from an artisan, hand made tradition, which is much more appealing.
I know that is something of an over-simplification because both types of guitar can, and are, made in both ways, but for me, the Spanish guitar and its method of construction are much more beautiful and thats what motivates me.


Interesting, Kevin - thanks for your input. I love lightly built guitars, but have also played a few heavier ones that knocked my socks off (ie Greenfield). Of course, you build what you want to build - fair play to ya!

Gimar - the top purfling adds a lot to the look IMO. I think when it's not there, people miss it but they don't always know why. I agree with Anders, Sitka can be so beautiful and it's neat how it changes over time.

I think Lutz has to be my favorite top for a steel string. It seems to share characteristics of Sitka and Englemann. I've never seen a flamenco with Lutz, that would be interesting.



Jim Kirby -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 6 2012 1:14:58)

I started out building steel string guitars (actually, I started out building Tele's) and concentrated on a body shape that is sort of a cross between an OM/000 and a small jumbo, but my first request for a guitar from someone else was for a classical guitar, and it has been nylon strings ever since. I should go back and build some on spec, but I still feel like I have piles to learn about the Spanish guitar, and I'm happy pursuing that path.



Peter Tsiorba -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 10 2012 18:02:00)

I occasionally build steel strings. This one is my own shape, a bit more "classical" and built with a Spanish heel style construction.

A bunch of additional photos of this guitar can be found here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/guitarsbypeter/MarkCheekSteelString#



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



johnguitar -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 12 2012 21:27:30)

My second build was an acoustic bass from a GAL plan, yeah, in Granada. The guy played it but it was pretty crap. About ten guitars later I tried an acoustic. It sold quickly and a player friend thought it sounded beautiful. It was classical-sized and had brazillian back and sides actually the sister set to the "flamenca negra" that someone was selling here about a year ago if I remember correctly. I looked up the thread but the photo posts have been deleted. In any case I will not be making any more acoustics because I believe that specialization is the way to go, classicals and flamencos is a wide enough range already.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 13 2012 8:14:59)

quote:

I will not be making any more acoustics because I believe that specialization is the way to go


Well, I think that is something that depends on the person you are and its not a universal rule. You learn from other things as well. Building a violin is teaching me A LOT.



Peter Tsiorba -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 15 2012 3:59:21)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

Building a violin is teaching me A LOT.


Anders, I would agree with you. I made two violins, and found the experience quite interesting, and complementary to guitar building skills. Violin making is much more sculptural in nature than guitar making. I'd like to believe that my affection for violin knives is a direct result of that [limited] experience of making fiddles.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Resident Luthiers - ever built a steel string? (Oct. 15 2012 8:06:06)

I would basically build anything that I can play reasonably well. I havent played acoustical steel strings for many years, but I did so for many other years, so I know what they are and what to look for. The same goes for Violas, mandolins and maybe Mandolas.

The problem with building things you dont understand really well, and in my world that term means being able to play at a reasonable level, is that you dont get under the skin of the beast. You´re just touching surface.
This can be bypassed by specializing in one kind of instrument. Then in the end after building a lot of that instrument you´ll get to know what its all about. But it´ll never equal the direct response you get from playing the instrument.

Anyways, in my way of living this world, its absurd to make something as complicated as an instrument and not being able to use it.



Page: [1]

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET