Flamenco Guitar Advise (Full Version)

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Kalo -> Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 16 2012 23:48:12)

Hi All,

Just need some type of advise...

I am playing on my Takamine CP132SC! The bridge is high, but, the action is low. The width of the nut is 50 mm and the I believe the spacing at the bridge is 56 a little tight but playable.

Okay, so, I don't know what is wrong with me..Ayear ago I had to sell my Fransico Navarro Student Flamenco guitar because I needed money. My Mom had suffered a stroke as well...Everything came to a hault.

A little over four months ago, I purchase a custom Fransico Navarro guitar from a I private seller! I returned it because the guitar didn't play as nice as my first FN student flamenco. When it I took it in for a set up the luthier said he could not drop the action to 3mm at the 12 fret because there was no more room in the bridge slots to drop it.

The guitar played stiff and it was not easy to play at all. Again, I returned it!

About FOUR weeks ago, someone in Arizona, where I live was selling a higher end Arturo Huipe blanca..

I met up with the Seller and spent over three hours trying the guitar out. The seller originally bought the blanca in Parracho for $1800 and told me he would let me have it for $900.00

GREAT deal for a nice sounding blanca...But, what stopped me from buying it was that the neck was flat in the back...Thinner than most flamenco guitars and it just didn't feel as comfortable.

The Seller was willing to let me have the guitar (with no down payment) and take it home for three to four days and I declined...

My friend thinks I should take him up on the offer...I chickened because I felt that if I didn't feel right after three hours of playing, it wasn't going to feel right four days later.

My friend thinks I should I go back and ask him to try it out and take it home??

The other thing I was thinking is going direct to Ron Hudson and maybe try another student flamenco navarro and have him set it up low. Seems like no one here in AZ knows how to set up a flamenco guitar...

Questions: Should I go back and try out the Arturo Huipe guitar and take it home with me. No down payment and free to take it home..

Or should I go to Ron Hudson and by another Student Flamenco Blanca and have it him set up the guitar?

I appreciate any help on this matter...

Kalo



rogeliocan -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 0:12:45)

You need help indeed, how about a psychiatrist?[8D]

Your text comes and goes, confused indeed.
You want a luthier built guitar, save your money and wait.
You don't want another Paracho, then don't buy another one!

I suggest you buy a guitar that you like and forget, although it can be very difficult, who built it. Do you like the sound, do you like the feel. Yes or no. If it's 'yes, but' then that equals no.

About the different neck, sometimes it's just about getting used to something new. If you have no commitment trying the guitar for four days then just try it, you have nothing to loose. But.... you don't want another Paracho... Next time don't even look at a Paracho, since you don't want one, and save yourself the grief.

And you think you will be satisfied once you have a luthier made guitar... at that time I bet you will start eying bigger names ;) So the fun is not over yet!!!!

- funny the dictionary on this site does not recognize the word luthier.



rombsix -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 1:03:12)

Kalo - if I were you, I would stick with your current Takamine. It is more than fine, and you know that you can play it without much hand troubles. Stick with it until you've saved a good amount of money and get a Culpepper. Patience is a virtue, and instant gratification can cause later regret. I played cheap classicals for 12 years before getting a "real" flamenco guitar. [:)]

My personal advice: just wait. Don't take flamenco guitar THAT seriously. I think it is causing you more stress and anxiety than it is fun and joy. Make do with the instrument you have now. Work slowly on technique, but still play stuff (compas, remates, falsetas, etc.) even if it involves techniques you feel you have not "mastered" yet. If you dwell on everything in flamenco as much as you are doing so now, I feel you will get "burnt out" and start hating the entire thing in some time. Take things slow and one step at a time, and everything will fall into place eventually.

Cheers!



Kalo -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 2:51:53)

quote:

Your text comes and goes, confused indeed.
You want a luthier built guitar, save your money and wait.
You don't want another Paracho, then don't buy another one!
quote:



Hi rogeliocan,

Indeed a shrink for sure [:D][8D]

Well, I don't want to give anyone the impression that FN and Paracho guitars aren't AWESOME...

I wish, I had NEVER sold my first FN blanca. However, I am guessing I really had my heart set on a custom handmade.

quote:

And you think you will be satisfied once you have a luthier made guitar... at that time I bet you will start eying bigger names ;) So the fun is not over yet!!!!


OMG, NO, don't say that [:D]

quote:

Kalo - if I were you, I would stick with your current Takamine. It is more than fine, and you know that you can play it without much hand troubles. Stick with it until you've saved a good amount of money and get a Culpepper. Patience is a virtue, and instant gratification can cause later regret. I played cheap classicals for 12 years before getting a "real" flamenco guitar.


Hey rombsix,

Thanks for your input! The only thing I dislike about the Takamine is that the bridge can't be lowered. I took it back to REPAIR, yesterday, and I am going to have the pick ups fixed. The repair guy talked me out of lowering the bridge.

I don't understand why? The neck can be tweaked as it has a trust rod and could totally tweak the neck.

I totally understand that if I fix the pickups it might create a problem...But there is a chance that the pick ups are fried and are beyong fixing.

It's tough to do golpe when the bridge is high...However, the guitar doesn't sound too bad.

Truthfully, I am inspired by you that you played 12 years on a CHEAP classical guitar and made it sound FLAMENCO!!!

It at least gives me hope that I can do the same!! If I post anything in the future it will be me playing the takamine [:)]

I won't get burnt out. I am practicing technique as well as compas, and some falsetas!!! Thanks for reminding me that flamenco is about fun and joy [:)]

Kalo



dararith -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 4:05:14)

Since you seem to go back and forth with liking various parts of the guitar, I feel that you should wait until you get a guitar gives you the feel and sound you like.

Ramzi's got some drive to be able to play with a classical guitar for 12 years before a real guitar. ... that's just so admirable.

I played my cheap factory made guitar for 2 years and started to lack drive to practice more (since I played some really good ones from some friends, and then when I got back to my guitar, I didn't really want to play it anymore since the sound sucks). I saved up money eventually and obtained a hand-crafted guitar that was made to be 'flamenco'. Now it's so much more enjoyable, and I'm glad I didn't 'settle' for a guitar that I didn't like.



HolyEvil -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 7:54:45)

you really have to bite the bullet and do it sometimes..
if you can take it home and play it for a few days to try it out. Do it. If you like it, keep it. If not, return it.
Seriously spending 3 hrs at a guy's place testing the guitar is way too long IMO. He's being extremely nice. I'll let a guy do 1 hr max, then it's the testing period or that's it.
That other 2 hr can be spent doing something productive. And 900 is not expensive at all.

And 1 of my guitars has a bridge spread of 56mm and I like it. The other one which is slightly more comfortable is 56.5 or 57. If you have small hands 56mm spread might be good.



rogeliocan -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 10:40:03)

12 years Rombsix! you are virtuous indeed! But maybe the sound was not so bad, that would help a lot, for me anyways.

Kalo, reading HolyEvil's post reminded me that one of my guitars has 57mm spread at the saddle. Arpeggios is the technique that I had most difficulty with, and at a certain point I thought that maybe it was because of that narrower width. But it was not, it was just me not mastering the technique. My other guitar is a bit wider and I switch between both and don't even notice the difference.

I remember reading in this foro that Sanlucar (I think) had his guitars made wider to accommodate his big hands. So I am sure, being a woman, that 56 is probably not an issue for you.

And I would think the same about your golpes, that you should be able to do golpes with a guitar with higher strings. I bet that that Amir guy that demos guitars would make your guitar sound pretty good, just too say that, as Rombsix says, you can probably do more millage on that guitar and focus on your practice; and wait for the guitar you actually want.



tri7/5 -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 12:39:31)

There's a cordoba solista on ebay for like $800 right now. I haven't played one personally but everything I've heard as a review puts them in the top of the budget realm.



tele -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 13:12:05)

Personally if the guitar feels otherwise ok I would try it at home for couple days and see if you get used to the neck.



BarkellWH -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 14:29:53)

Kalo,

I do not think you need a shrink, as some have suggested, but I do think you need to take it a bit more easy and relax. It seems to me that you are a bit too eager to purchase a new guitar, to the point that you might make the mistake again of purchasing one you don't like, as you did the Navarro. Many of us originally owned guitars that were less than optimal, but it paid to wait and finally purchase one that suited us. In the meantime, there is no reason why you cannot continue to make progress on the guitar you currently own. My advice, for what it is worth, is to cease thrashing around trying to find another guitar. Attend to your job, save your money, continue practicing and learning on your current guitar, and eventually things will work out.

Cheers,

Bill



clevblue -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 14:43:24)

Well said Sir! That's what I hope to do, anyway, but when I can afford it

By the way Kalo, I hope your Mom is okay now!



Kalo -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 16:31:39)

[quoteRamzi's got some drive to be able to play with a classical guitar for 12 years before a real guitar. ... that's just so admirable.

Hi dararith

I agree, with your statement! Ramzi made the classical guitar sound GREAT!
Thanks for your input as well!

quote:

Seriously spending 3 hrs at a guy's place testing the guitar is way too long IMO. He's being extremely nice. I'll let a guy do 1 hr max, then it's the testing period or that's it.


Hey Holyevil,

Well, I was just there wasting the Seller time...We actually played and he wants me to join in every SUNDAY for dance practice, and I actually made a flamenco playing friend [:D]

quote:

And I would think the same about your golpes, that you should be able to do golpes with a guitar with higher strings. I bet that that Amir guy that demos guitars would make your guitar sound pretty good, just too say that, as Rombsix says, you can probably do more millage on that guitar and focus on your practice; and wait for the guitar you actually want.


Hi rogeliocan,

The golpe that I am having problems with is the one where you hit the top of the guitar then having to clear the strings down...I am not sure what that Golpe is called...But the bridge is high, and I miss the strings...Well, I'll just do the regular type golpe!

quote:

I do not think you need a shrink, as some have suggested, but I do think you need to take it a bit more easy and relax. It seems to me that you are a bit too eager to purchase a new guitar, to the point that you might make the mistake again of purchasing one you don't like, as you did the Navarro. Many of us originally owned guitars that were less than optimal, but it paid to wait and finally purchase one that suited us. In the meantime, there is no reason why you cannot continue to make progress on the guitar you currently own. My advice, for what it is worth, is to cease thrashing around trying to find another guitar. Attend to your job, save your money, continue practicing and learning on your current guitar, and eventually things will work out


Hey Bill,

Thanks for thinking I don't need a shrink [:D]
Lots of a great responses from the foro members

I think you are right, I am a BIT to eagered!!! I can play on the takamine and I am really trying to save up money!!! I guess it does pay to wait in the long run!!!

I am also thinking of a "negra" instead of blanca, so, I guess, I can pretend that the takamine is a "single cutaway negra"!

The takamine is EASY to play! It as stated I wish I could lower the bridge!

quote:

Well said Sir! That's what I hope to do, anyway, but when I can afford it
By the way Kalo, I hope your Mom is okay now!


Hi Clevblue,

Thanks for asking about my Mom! She is improving slowly and is a fighter! I guess, I'll keep plugging away on the takamine for now and keep saving money!

I just want to thank you all for your responding to my thread. Each input helps me out a lot! I guess being to in a hurry can me harmful in the end!

Kalo



flamencositar -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 17:06:01)

Don't buy nada! You aren't ready. You don't know what you want. It takes me at least 3 years of arguing with myself before a I buy a guitar. Three years after my last arguement, I bought a FN Special Concert Negra from Ron Hudson. I was very specific about what I wanted and Ron and Senor Navarro obliged. So, heed the advice of the elders on this foro, wait!

Once the mud has settled, the waters will be clear.
Don't move until you see it!



Kalo -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 17:25:14)

quote:

Don't buy nada! You aren't ready. You don't know what you want. It takes me at least 3 years of arguing with myself before a I buy a guitar. Three years after my last arguement, I bought a FN Special Concert Negra from Ron Hudson. I was very specific about what I wanted and Ron and Senor Navarro obliged. So, heed the advice of the elders on this foro, wait!

Once the mud has settled, the waters will be clear.
Don't move until you see it!


Hi Flamencositar!!!

A FN Special Concert Negra??? Do you like it!!! I bet it sounds nice!!! Wow, so you waited it out for 3 years!!!! I guess, I shouldn't be that impatient!!!

I love the your saying "once the mud has settled, the waters wll be clear! You're right, I won'te move until I see it [;)]

Kalo



El Kiko -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 20:47:09)

I have to agree if your are desperately dreaming of a guitar then you are in a position to make a big mistake , remember there will always be guitars for sale , and part of the fun is looking for them, comparing them and learning about the sound etc....

The one thing I can say is the difficult market is the middle priced guitar ....
You spend quite a bit on them , and yet its not exactly what you want ...so your not happy and start dreaming agian.....

I think the first choices are go reasonably cheap , for learning , and you will know when you outgrow it , many here have the well priced , good for many things, but not professional Yamaha 171 or 172 and are happy enough with it , or similar priced guitar ...

Then, maybe after a few more years you may consider upgrading , then go for something really good .. for life kinda thing .....

Also , maybe just save your coins in a big box under the bed and keep looking here , as every once in a while really good bargains come along made by the luthiers here and everywhere.



Kalo -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 17 2012 22:28:28)

Hi El Kiko,

I enjoyed reading your post!!!

I agree, and I guess, I was just looking for lower end flamenco guitar to replace my takamine CP132SC.

After a couple of years, and if I become an advanced level of guitar playing, maybe I could get "handmade" from one our great luthier in on the forum.

Seriously, the Takamine isn't bad, but, I only wish I could lower the bridge on it.

I don't understand why the repair man doesn't want to do it...I mean the Takamine has a trustrod, pardon my ignorance, but, I am sure he can tweak the neck if need be...

Right now the action is LOW, accept for the bridge is high...So, I am sure he would have to level it out when lowering the bridge...

It's not exactly easy to play with the bridge being high....

Kalo



flamencositar -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 18 2012 0:08:23)

Kalo,

To be accurate, it is a FN Special Grand Concert Flamenco Reyes Model. It is Sr. Navarro flagship model. Yes I love it. It's a solid German spruce top and cocobolo back and sides. He is a beast. Loud, growling, and biting son of a motherless goat. Totally wait the 3 years. I am contemplating the next one... 3 more years to go. [:)]



Kalo -> RE: Flamenco Guitar Advise (Sep. 18 2012 2:17:44)

quote:

Kalo, To be accurate, it is a FN Special Grand Concert Flamenco Reyes Model. It is Sr. Navarro flagship model. Yes I love it. It's a solid German spruce top and cocobolo back and sides. He is a beast. Loud, growling, and biting son of a motherless goat. Totally wait the 3 years. I am contemplating the next one... 3 more years to go.


Wow, I am sure it sounds AWESOME!!! If you have pictures, audio files, or youtube video, please share [:)]

I am glad it "he" was worth the 3 year wait[:D]

Kalo



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