Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Full Version)

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Ronny -> Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 9:02:07)

Junky and cheap i don't know why ppl crazy about it? [8|] The fact that the bass growl and loud dosen't mean that its a good flamenco guitar no dynamics and you have to play it hard. Didn't like it at all.

[:@]



Graham_B -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 9:16:26)

quote:

why ppl crazy about it?


Who is crazy about it??



Ronny -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 9:23:20)

Graham i was reading some reviews online about this model and i was expecting more....Sounded junky.
Thanks



Graham_B -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 9:39:19)

Ah, I see [:)]

Hopefully you can return to the supplier?

The sage advice here appears to favour the Navarro - maybe a better option?

Good luck[:)]



Ronny -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 15:32:49)

It might be the next option not sure because i was thinking about the Sanchis lopez 2f.



Ramon Amira -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 16:49:32)

I have sold dozens of Cordoba 45FPs and 45FMs, and not one single client of mine has ever returned them or said that they seemed "junky and cheap." To the contrary, they have all been very happy with their guitars.

All guitars fall into a certain category. The Cordoba 45FP is a factory guitar that has a basic street price of roughly $800 or less. You say you are "thinking about the Sanchis Lopez 2F." Well, I can tell you right now, that that is an infinitely better guitar. No comparison. But that is the point – you can't compare a fine flamenco guitar like the 2F to a low mid-level factory guitar, and of course it costs way more.

In case you haven't seen it, here is a video of Grisha playing a Cordoba 45FP, and it sounds mighty good to me and to anyone who knows anything about flamenco guitars. And please don't tell me that it sounds good because Grisha is a virtuoso. A virtuoso can get the absolute most out of a guitar – BUT – the world's greatest virtuoso cannot get anything out of a guitar that is not in the guitar in the first place. So – I don't know your playing level – but how it sounds might depend upon who's playing it.

Here is the video –



One other point – strings can make a huge difference to the sound of a guitar. As it happens, all Cordoba guitars come with Savarez Corum Basses and Savarez New Crystal trebles. The Savarez New Crystal trebles are just about the worst strings I have ever played, and can easily make a guitar sound "junky and cheap"

I provide all my clients with two extra sets of La Bella strings, and I advise all my clients to immediately change the treble strings. If you haven't tried that, I would suggest doing that first, and if you're still not satisfied, then return the guitar if you can.

Ramon



bursche -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 18:08:11)

What did you expect in that price range???



Kalo -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 19:00:20)

quote:

In case you haven't seen it, here is a video of Grisha playing a Cordoba 45FP, and it sounds mighty good to me and to anyone who knows anything about flamenco guitars. And please don't tell me that it sounds good because Grisha is a virtuoso. A virtuoso can get the absolute most out of a guitar – BUT – the world's greatest virtuoso cannot get anything out of a guitar that is not in the guitar in the first place. So – I don't know your playing level – but how it sounds might depend upon who's playing it.


Well, I am sure it doesn't hurt to be a virtuoso when playing Cordoba 45FP[:D]

I think the most important thing is not whether it looks cheap...How does it feel in your hands? How does it sound tone wise???

You don't have to be a virtuoso player to notice whether the guitar is easy to play and at least sounds decent for learning!!!

Kalo



Ronny -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 19:25:46)

Ramon,
Ok...i'm a beginner in flamenco but i played rumba since 8 years ago and i think its ok to say i dont like that guitar at all. Your are right it has savarez strings and i know that the trebles dont sound good in alot guitars. You guys be patient with beginner because i think even just a listner can say his opinion about a guitar (and yes i do know something about flamenco guitars if you are not sure about that). Thank you for putting time to post the info.

Thanks
Ronny[:)]



Ronny -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 20:03:29)

Kalo,
Your so right and in the end of the day its very personal thing but for sure there is some limits.


Ok, I´m back with one of favorites, Pulsation. Thats one of the most important things in a guitar that suits you and its the one you cant adjust because its built into the guitar. In popular words I would call it stiffness or softness of a guitar. Its something you feel in you right hand, it has to do with how you produce sound. Its also something you cannot adjust by changing string tension. Yes a little bit, but a stiff guitar feels stiff with low tension strings and a soft guitar feels soft with high tension strings. Pulsation you control mainly by thickness of soundboard and how heavy its braced. These two things interact and also affect the sound of the guitar. If the soundboard is to thick, the guitar might be trebly but also with lack of nuance and dynamics in the basses and midrange. If to thin it becomes bassy and with lack of dynamics in the trebles and high midrange. Guitars with a to strong bracing system tend to have this unpleasant nosy sound. There´s no right pulsation. It depends on the player and some pro´s like stiff guitars and some like soft guitars. From my experience, a typical stiff guitar is a Conde and a typical soft one is a Reyes. So you see, that you can find all kinds of pulsations in all categorys and its a waste of time to discuss which is best etc, because its so personal.

That was one of Andres Eliasson posts

Thanks
Ronny



cbecker78 -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 20:12:26)

I don't know how "junky" it was, but when I had one at my house I didn't care much for it.

There was a significant vibration of the Bass E string at the saddle that kept popping up even when that string wasn't being played. Maybe a combination of the break angle and how the saddle was finished fairly flat at that string. but maybe just too much resonance vibration in that frequency. Tuning of the top seemed to be irregular also.

It did play quite nice in terms of neck size and action, but I ultimately sent it back due to the tonal issues. I probably just got a bugger, but I didn't try to evaluate a second one. I was going to try the Cordoba Solista or a Student model of Navarro, but ended up really liking the used Manuel Rodriguez factory model (ff) that I tried next.



srshea -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 5 2012 20:27:35)

I think just about everything in the under-$1000 range is pretty much just going to sound like a box with strings on it. Instead of sound and tone I think the primary concern when hunting for a student/starter guitar is just finding something that feels alright in the hands, can handle a low set up, snaps a bit when you play rasgeados, dig your thumb in, etc. Expecting anything beyond that is probably a recipe for disappointment.

A cheap guitar that enables you to develop basic flamenco technique on it is about all you can ask for. If you get a little more than that, then that’s a nice little bonus.

I briefly had a 32f or whatever it was. Not bad. Looked like a flamenco guitar, played alright, sounded like a box with strings on it.



Kalo -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 2:23:54)

quote:

Ok, I´m back with one of favorites, Pulsation. Thats one of the most important things in a guitar that suits you and its the one you cant adjust because its built into the guitar. In popular words I would call it stiffness or softness of a guitar. Its something you feel in you right hand, it has to do with how you produce sound. Its also something you cannot adjust by changing string tension. Yes a little bit, but a stiff guitar feels stiff with low tension strings and a soft guitar feels soft with high tension strings. Pulsation you control mainly by thickness of soundboard and how heavy its braced. These two things interact and also affect the sound of the guitar. If the soundboard is to thick, the guitar might be trebly but also with lack of nuance and dynamics in the basses and midrange. If to thin it becomes bassy and with lack of dynamics in the trebles and high midrange. Guitars with a to strong bracing system tend to have this unpleasant nosy sound. There´s no right pulsation. It depends on the player and some pro´s like stiff guitars and some like soft guitars. From my experience, a typical stiff guitar is a Conde and a typical soft one is a Reyes. So you see, that you can find all kinds of pulsations in all categorys and its a waste of time to discuss which is best etc, because its so personal.


Hey Ronny,

If this will make you feel any better, I order a custom Student Fransico Navarro Guitar. It supposively had the pattern bracing of a conde, headstock, and that ORANGE color.

Long story short, the guitar was stiff feeling and the action on that guitar could not be drop to 3mm at the 12th fret.

I ended up returning it back and having to pay for shipping and restocking fee. Which is fair, but, still....It was semi costly!

Okay, as a flamenco guitarist, I consider myself beginner almost intermediate. Some think I am past beginner. Point being I've played rock guitar for 8 years and as for Flamenco guitar I've owned a Navarro in the past.

IMHO, you shouldn't have to be a top level Flamenco guitarist to know if the guitar plays great!

I believe what you are saying and know that this Cordoba didn't feel good in your hands.

If I were you, I would return this guitar and save up for a Handmade guitarist.

There are so many decent luthier on this site that can make you a GREAT guitar..

Andy Culpepper, John Shelton, Ethan Deutch and Stephen Falk just to name a few...

Don't fool around with cheap factory made guitars.

The only other option is maybe you should try a Student Navarro Guitar..

In the past when I first started learning, I bought one in 2011 and it played nice...

The second one that I currently bought did not!!!

Good Luck!

Kalo



Kalo -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 2:26:20)

quote:

I think just about everything in the under-$1000 range is pretty much just going to sound like a box with strings on it. Instead of sound and tone I think the primary concern when hunting for a student/starter guitar is just finding something that feels alright in the hands, can handle a low set up, snaps a bit when you play rasgeados, dig your thumb in, etc. Expecting anything beyond that is probably a recipe for disappointment.

A cheap guitar that enables you to develop basic flamenco technique on it is about all you can ask for. If you get a little more than that, then that’s a nice little bonus.

I briefly had a 32f or whatever it was. Not bad. Looked like a flamenco guitar, played alright, sounded like a box with strings on it.


I like this statment LOTS!!!! srshea, couldn't have said it any better and that is what I am starting to notice as well.

Save up for a hand made one and you won't be disappointed.

Kalo



Ronny -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 5:38:32)

Kalo thank you for your time replying the post and bieng understanding. I was so disappointed thats it.
Thanks
Ronny



Heartfeltflamenco -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 15:47:48)

get a Navarro Reyes model



cbecker78 -> RE: the true value of cheap guitars (Sep. 6 2012 18:52:03)

quote:

ORIGINAL: srshea

I think just about everything in the under-$1000 range is pretty much just going to sound like a box with strings on it.



Apparently you have never read reviews for guitars under-$1000.

All you have to do is install a bone nut, replace the factory tuning gears with brand-name ones, and then swap out for a set of the most popular strings.

Your box with strings is then all but guaranteed to sound like guitars costing 30 times the value, and play better than guitars that cost 10,000+ (USD).



srshea -> RE: the true value of cheap guitars (Sep. 6 2012 19:29:17)

quote:

Apparently you have never read reviews for guitars under-$1000.


You’re right! I’ve been neglecting the wealth of knowledge to be found in anonymous on-line reviews of discount guitars "hecho a mano" by North Korean toddlers. My mistake. [:D]



Kalo -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 19:36:12)

quote:

Apparently you have never read reviews for guitars under-$1000.

All you have to do is install a bone nut, replace the factory tuning gears with brand-name ones, and then swap out for a set of the most popular strings.

Your box with strings is then all but guaranteed to sound like guitars costing 30 times the value, and play better than guitars that cost 10,000+ (USD).


Even if you do replace the nut, bone, tuners, and strings, what about the quality of quality of the wood those cheap guitars are made with..

This process you mentioned might get someone through until they can afford to buy a GOOD guitar!

I am not sure if the guitar would sound or play as great as a handmade guitar from one of the top luthier here on the forum.

Kalo



Leñador -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 19:45:51)

Anyone who is anyone knows there's no real difference between 1k factory guitars and 5-10k luthier guitars, starving musicians skip meals and take the bus to afford them because it's part of the image, there's no real reason......... [;)] I dunno, sarcasm doesn't work the same without voice intonation..........



Tomrocker -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 6 2012 23:25:07)

The difference is simply the response of the guitar between your hands. You can HEAR it clearly when you upgrate from a normal factory to a handmade.



jeff_hatcher -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 20 2012 0:51:11)

hey... gotta start somewhere. I can't pick up a new hobby and immediately drop $3k on an instrument I barely know how to play. Money is better spent on a good teacher.

I think that the Cordobas are a good starting point. I bought the GK Studio Negra, and compared to the 2 Yamahas (can't remember models.. but one had the adjustable gooseneck mike on the interior) and the Raimundo, the GK had a much more pleasing tone. I'll probably want to step up in a couple of years, but my instructor thinks I made a good choice for a starter (though he's personally not fond of the neck).

I don't know why folks insist on comparing these to luthier builds. If you want to judge them, compare them to similar factory instruments.



Kalo -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 20 2012 1:02:02)

quote:

hey... gotta start somewhere. I can't pick up a new hobby and immediately drop $3k on an instrument I barely know how to play. Money is better spent on a good teacher.

I think that the Cordobas are a good starting point. I bought the GK Studio Negra, and compared to the 2 Yamahas (can't remember models.. but one had the adjustable gooseneck mike on the interior) and the Raimundo, the GK had a much more pleasing tone. I'll probably want to step up in a couple of years, but my instructor thinks I made a good choice for a starter (though he's personally not fond of the neck).

I don't know why folks insist on comparing these to luthier builds. If you want to judge them, compare them to similar factory instruments.


Hi Jeff,

Funny you should mention that you just picked up a GK flamenco Negra at GC!

I just came from there and played the GK flamenco blanca. I too, liked the sound, and almost considered buying it, except for one thing..

The neck was waaaaaaay to narrow and trying to do alzapua was way to tight!!

Kalo



jeff_hatcher -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 20 2012 1:55:55)

quote:

Hi Jeff,

Funny you should mention that you just picked up a GK flamenco Negra at GC!

I just came from there and played the GK flamenco blanca. I too, liked the sound, and almost considered buying it, except for one thing..

The neck was waaaaaaay to narrow and trying to do alzapua was way to tight!!

Kalo


Actually picked it up at Sam Ash. They had a $120 off coupon and I had some classicals to trade. Store set it up for me the next day, and it's been a joy to play since.

The neck seems to be a sticking point for a lot of people. I've never really experienced anything different, but the more experienced players that have picked it up have commented both on the "narrowness" and the "thinness" of the neck.

Most liked the punchy low end, and thought it was decent enough, though the point was repeatedly made that it was below the standards of the $2k plus instruments. No surprise there. I think the name "Navarro" was thrown around a few times. I need to catch up on the popular pedigrees for flamenco instruments.



bursche -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Sep. 20 2012 2:07:49)

quote:

Anyone who is anyone knows there's no real difference between 1k factory guitars and 5-10k luthier guitars, starving musicians skip meals


yeeaah I mean it is reeeaaally not worth the effort...



norumba2 -> RE: Ordered Cordoba 45fp and it was??? (Jun. 21 2015 8:26:34)

I know it's a necro thread but these are on my radar as I'm looking for an entry/ intermediate flamenco build as I get back in the game. I've owned good flamencos in the past (Eladio Fernandez, Conde) but that's been ages. Currently getting the right hand in shape via my fiancée's mid 60s Giannini classical, butbut it's doing the job as a practice piece, save for a lot of golpes :)
I've played a few Cordoba and they are a little inconsistent. One singer I play with has a GK studio Blanca that's nice, but other units of that model weren't as good. I did play a studio Negra that was a little more lively. Also played a yamaha 171 that was hard to play but had a certain Mojo to it.

All that said, I ve been watching e bay for the right piece, and I think I can find something way cooler in the used 600 to 800 range than these at new street.
I do like pegs though. I'm surprised that a laminated sycamore build is the only one they offer pegs for . It's such a traditional appointment, you'd think one of their solid cypress models would offer this to.
Still, Grisha plays it great!



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