Soleares .... Norman?

Soleares .... Norman? (Full Version)

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John O. -> Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 2 2012 13:48:04)
I've been checking out the soleares structures on Norman's website, which is great by the way! Initially checking out your site I had one question in mind, I've accompanied this sung por soleá, relatively slow: E-------------------Am Una escalera de vidrio ----------------------C-B7 ay, por una sube la pena -----------F----------------E por otra baja el martirio ----------------------C-B7 ay, por una sube la pena -----------F----------------E por otra baja el martirio So this would be an ABC-BC, but you don't list VI-V7 as typical soleá accompanyment. So could this just be considered an uncommon personal interpretation by the singer or is it a solea por buleria sung as a soleá, or a soleá por bulerias por soleá, so to speak? [:D] Or am I splitting hairs?

NormanKliman -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 2 2012 17:10:04)
Hi John, Thanks for the info. Without hearing it, I'm not able to say whether it's bulería por soleá, a personal variation, or splitting hairs. I appreciate the input, though. Logically, my site doesn't include all styles and variations that have been recorded. I'm currently revising the siguiriyas page, especially the derivatives of Viejo de La Isla. Once that's done, I'll have a look at adding more cantes. Feel free to upload an audio track to the forum or send it to me via e-mail.

Ricardo -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 2 2012 17:18:06)
quote: ORIGINAL: John O. I've been checking out the soleares structures on Norman's website, which is great by the way! Initially checking out your site I had one question in mind, I've accompanied this sung por soleá, relatively slow: E-------------------Am Una escalera de vidrio ----------------------C-B7 ay, por una sube la pena -----------F----------------E por otra baja el martirio ----------------------C-B7 ay, por una sube la pena -----------F----------------E por otra baja el martirio So this would be an ABC-BC, but you don't list VI-V7 as typical soleá accompanyment. So could this just be considered an uncommon personal interpretation by the singer or is it a solea por buleria sung as a soleá, or a soleá por bulerias por soleá, so to speak? [:D] Or am I splitting hairs? I am imagining the melody in my head, and I would say it's personal, the melody of the first line would be helpful. Are you positive the "cambio" is like that and not normal G7, or G7-C? I assume the singer lands an F# and that's why you want those C-B chords...if it's NOT F# the singer sings, you might suposed to be playing good ol G7 like a normal solea cambio. ANother reverse cambio I have had to acompany a lot I did not notice as a standard style and think a personalized variant is the cambio that the singer sings (as per your example) a Bb note on the B verse, so you do C7-F....then resolve as normal F-E. So knowing whats the FIRST line melody will probably get at what style the solea or buleria por solea etc, is based on. Ricardo

John O. -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 9:08:47)
It's definitely an F# there, bringing the voice down from A over G like you'd hear in bulerias. Don't have an exact recording so I'll use this as an example: Here's the link The first line is sung like "Ay encontrao en la vida" at 1:30-1:34 The next two are sung like "Me duele, me duele, boquita de decirte..." at 0:49-0:59 and repeated.

Ricardo -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 15:36:29)
Got it... I think. Do you have Potito's album Barrio alto? The last track is solea palo seco. I think it's in our cante accomp thread check index. Last letra starts at 2:27 goes up to a minor then cambio BUT he slips in the F# at the tail end both times. I Would do C chord on 10 via G7 then the B7 on 12. And that's knowing in advance ... Normal accomp style I'd miss that change all together Probably and let the C chord finish it up. If your singer is hitting F# earlier than Potito's You are right to make a clear Change to B7 on 10 or whatever. I feel it's a personal embellishment that a singer could do to any cambio but it may Have an origin not sure. Same type of sneaky Chromatics Norman pointed out w Pastora Siguiriyas earlier and guitar didn't give tritone sub Like or modern fusion guys would ... But it's ok IMO because it's one of the acceptable mistakes of accompaniment

NormanKliman -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 16:12:14)
Hi John, I listened to your bulerías track in the audio section, I tracked down the cantes you mentioned, and I tried to imagine a cante por soleá that starts like one of those bulerías and ends like another one. Just a guess, but maybe the cante that you mentioned in your first post was the bulería corta in a context of bulería por soleá. Or a personal variation. But I'd really have to hear that cante to be sure. Let me know if you find a recording. EDIT: Ah, I hadn't noticed Ricardo's post. Check it out and let us know.

Ricardo -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 17:33:55)
Here's potito: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=124692&appid=&p=&mpage=9&key=potito%2Cfragua&tmode=&smode=&s=#127991 I realized when playing along, my ear won't let me do the cambio I described earlier....I feel a need to hold on to the A minor chord longer as per what he does with the voice. Like first line, E-Am, second line stay Am till B7 (or rather Am, then E-Am on 10, then B7 on 12). 3rd line resolve. Same on repeat, I am pulled to Am again then B7 on 12 briefly as I described. I could be wrong, but I can't deny my gut instinct when playing. I mean I can play the cambio there no prob, just something feels weird. For me it's yet another case where "detaching" from the lyric for sake of musicality is important. I will load up my accompanyment for it and if anyone got a better way to do it it would be helpful to see. Ricardo

Ricardo -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 18:18:43)
Sorry, it's por medio not por arriba, so as per topic above, Dm, and instead of the C7-F move I stay on Dm, and toss in the brief E7 ... which purposely I knew was coming. In practice I wouldn't catch that on the fly.

John O. -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 3 2012 22:14:23)
That is it EXACTLY ... thanks! Glad to see you would have done it the same. Rocío Márquez sang this for a workshop I accompanied and she seemed okay with it that way, too - she was por medio, too. With the voice jumping between the F and the D I didn't even consider the cambio with C7. She stuck it on the end of a Soleá de Alcala. Something about the structure of this letra, especially that missing C7, made it feel more like a solea por buleria, which is why I was asking - but I guess from what you write it's an uncommon interpretation of Soleá. I still can't seem to get all the origins and structures of soleá and soleá por bulerias into a line in my head, but looking at Norman's website it does look like a complex topic anyways. But Norman, your site has helped me with this a great deal already nevertheless! Thanks again for your help, guys!

NormanKliman -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 4 2012 5:56:13)
Ah-ha! Starts like Joaquín el de La Paula 2 but goes to the sharped second degree in the second line, unlike the bulería corta. Good job, guys!

machopicasso -> RE: Soleares .... Norman? (Sep. 5 2012 8:01:30)
quote: Good job, guys! This is why I visit the foro. Thanks guys.

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