question about guitar under constant string tension (Full Version)

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eg.czerny -> question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 26 2012 22:12:00)

I have a 41 year old flamenco guitar that has been under full string tension most of its life. It's very light weight. The top is WRC. No cracks or warping. The top had some doming but I had that repaired a few years ago. I rarely play this guitar now. My question is would taking the tension off after all these years do more harm than good, or should I just leave well enough alone?



jshelton5040 -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 26 2012 23:35:20)

quote:

ORIGINAL: eg.czerny

I have a 41 year old flamenco guitar that has been under full string tension most of its life. It's very light weight. The top is WRC. No cracks or warping. The top had some doming but I had that repaired a few years ago. I rarely play this guitar now. My question is would taking the tension off after all these years do more harm than good, or should I just leave well enough alone?

If you're not going to play it take the strings off. It will be in stasis until a player gets hold of it and brings it back to life.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 27 2012 7:24:12)

quote:


If you're not going to play it take the strings off. It will be in stasis until a player gets hold of it and brings it back to life.


Or at least slacken them. This way you wont loose the bones.

Nylon strings dont have the same problem a steel strings but its better to play safe . Steel strings actually hardens when they vibrate and then their tension gets higher. I´ve seen quite a few old mandolins and specially acoustic steel strings which were more or less left to die hanging on a wall with the strings slowly warping the soundboard and evt. pulling of the bridge.



RTC -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 3:22:49)

Great advice.



Jeff Highland -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 6:48:45)

quote:

Steel strings actually hardens when they vibrate and then their tension gets higher


If you are going to complain about people being overmental, please don't make such silly statements



Anders Eliasson -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 7:13:38)

quote:

If you are going to complain about people being overmental, please don't make such silly statements


Thats not being mental, but a simple physical law. [:D]



Jeff Highland -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 7:23:12)

Sorry but no it is not, Steel may work harden,but that does not cause a stretched steel string to gain tension.
I have plenty of steel string guitars which have been under tension for many years untouched. They do not increase in pitch unless it is from temperature drop or from humidity variations affecting the timber



krichards -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 9:55:07)

quote:

simple


No not simple at all.
There may be 'work hardening' and there may be 'creep' and there may well be other physical changes under tension, especially over long time periods, but I'm not convinced this would cause an increase in tension.

What we need here is a materials scientist to give a definitive answer.



Jeff Highland -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 10:08:07)

Among other things I used to run a Materials testing lab and do structural design in steel, timber and concrete, will that do.
45 years of owning Steel string guitars, I have never observed them to gain tension during storage and there is no metalurgical reason for them to do so



Anders Eliasson -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 13:47:47)

I was taught that a steel string would harden when vibrating. Was it wrong?



krichards -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 15:26:04)

Yes it may harden. Its called 'work hardening'.
but that's not the same as increased tension.

Tension is a force, Hardness is resistance to deformation; not the same thing.

Hope that helps make it clearer.



Jeff Highland -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 28 2012 21:39:11)

quote:

I was taught that a steel string would harden when vibrating. Was it wrong?


Yes 'fraid so

Music wire is already hard both from composition and the process of forming it into wire.
Work hardening increases the yield strength but only takes place when you go past the point of permanant deformation or elastic limit (on Steel)
Vibration involves deformation of the string within it's elastic limit and does not create work hardening,
Where you see work hardening and it's companion, fatigue is in the places where the string is forced to change direction sharply, the saddle, nut and tuning post.

But none of these increase the tension of the string



Anders Eliasson -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 29 2012 7:12:47)

Ok, thanks for correcting my knowledge. I will from now on stop myself making mental comments on steel strings.[:D]



krichards -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 29 2012 7:24:26)

Thanks for your input Jeff.
A bit of expertise goes a long way.



Jeff Highland -> RE: question about guitar under constant string tension (Aug. 29 2012 7:44:41)

quote:

Ok, thanks for correcting my knowledge. I will from now on stop myself making mental comments on steel strings.


And I will make No technical comments on Nylon strings case I don't have a clue about how that material works



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