Golpe/Accents (Full Version)

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Kalo -> Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 1:27:40)

Hi All,

I assume that a Golpe is ALWAYS played on an accent of Palos?

I've noticed that most of what I learnt the Golpe is played on the accent mark accept for a compas I am currently reviewing.

I am reviewing Solea Compas and I know where the accent market is 3, 6, 8, 10, 12

Thanks,

Kalo



rombsix -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 1:31:16)

quote:

I assume that a Golpe is ALWAYS played on an accent of Palos?


I wouldn't say it is ALWAYS played on an accent. Sometimes you do it in other places too, but theoretically it should be used to emphasize accented beats.



HolyEvil -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 1:41:45)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalo

Hi All,

I assume that a Golpe is ALWAYS played on an accent of Palos?





the one you tap with the ring finger usually is with the accents,
but there's things u can do like in bulerias where u go
Tap ring finger, i up, i down, tap, i up, i down etc etc where it's in 8th notes, 2 notes to each beat.
so the golpe won't be on the actual accents.

the one you tap with your i/m finger above the low E can on or off the beats.

cheers



Kalo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 2:49:57)

Thanks Rombsix and Holy Evil!

I was working on a Solea and there was a golpe on the 1, 4, 7, 9 and then an up stroke. I am not use to see golpe on this part of the compas

So, what you both said makes sense!

Thanks

Kalo



Leñador -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 2:57:50)

I don't know that it's a good idea to associate gople with accents only. Every bulerias in the Juan Martin book has golpe's on 4 & 5 and not necessarily 12, 3, 6......similar in some Sabicas songs. I think the idea of golpe is to tell people where you are in the compas whether that's on the accented beats or not. I "feel" like it was probably invented as a way for the guitarist to communicate with the dancer. Although golpe'ing on the accented beats is one way to tell 'em where you are, it's not the only way. I've got no evidence to back this up but it seems right so I'm gunna run with it [:D] feel free people to "set me straight" if I'm off base by thinking this.



bursche -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 26 2012 3:00:45)

You could say golpes go with the accents. That does NOT mean that e.g. in Bulerías you have golpes on every 12,3,7,8,10. It really depends where the accentuation is set especially when developing a melody in a falseta - or just to get the thumb rushing before an alzapúa. Don't try to find this kind of mechanical rules behind playing. Just study the masters and copy the masters...and one day you make up your own music[:D]



Kalo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 1:19:57)

quote:

I don't know that it's a good idea to associate gople with accents only. Every bulerias in the Juan Martin book has golpe's on 4 & 5 and not necessarily 12, 3, 6......similar in some Sabicas songs. I think the idea of golpe is to tell people where you are in the compas whether that's on the accented beats or not. I "feel" like it was probably invented as a way for the guitarist to communicate with the dancer. Although golpe'ing on the accented beats is one way to tell 'em where you are, it's not the only way. I've got no evidence to back this up but it seems right so I'm gunna run with it feel free people to "set me straight" if I'm off base by thinking this.


I am learning the this Solea from Graf Martinez?? I should of re joined Jose's Website.

I had to quite for awhile because of being short on cash [:o] Sometimes books just don't cut it as for explaining everything...

quote:

You could say golpes go with the accents. That does NOT mean that e.g. in Bulerías you have golpes on every 12,3,7,8,10. It really depends where the accentuation is set especially when developing a melody in a falseta - or just to get the thumb rushing before an alzapúa. Don't try to find this kind of mechanical rules behind playing. Just study the masters and copy the masters...and one day you make up your own music


Copying the masters is a goal, but, creating my own music is another thing, LOL!


Thanks,

Kalo



Leñador -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 2:00:15)

quote:

I am learning the this Solea from Graf Martinez?? I should of re joined Jose's Website.


I never learned out of his books but 1 4 7 9 seems a little odd for solea to me. It's like one beat after what the accents are......books can be confusing without a teacher to clarify things.....



Kalo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 3:00:39)

It is odd, however, right afte the golpe there is an upstroke..

In a couple of more months, I will try to rejoin Jose Tanaka's website..

I wish there was a site that would START from begining, intermediat, and advance..

Jose is the closest!

Thanks,

Kalo



rombsix -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 5:18:25)

Can you post the audio from Graf-Martinez where he plays that with golpe on 1, 4, 7, 9?

Cheers!



Florian -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 5:23:04)

yes i wouldn't say glopes ALWAYS mark every accent either...they have 2 functions...practical and esthetic

1st yes marking accents for a singer or dancer when required..or if a falseta is not so obvious and requires a strong beat behind it

2nd its used as an effect to enrich dynamics ...like in a bulerias guitar solo

u could use it for all accents but then it becomes repetitive and predictable


shortest answer glope is to attract attention to whatever parts you wanna attract extra attention for...sometimes accents, sometimes offbeats...sometimes to attract attention to whats coming after it...sometimes practical purpose often times for esthetic..

it did start out as something strictly practical ...to save the guess work and give singer the beat...but somewhere along the line it also developed as one more effect available to a guitarist for dynamics and variation



Ricardo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 15:41:30)

Absolutely not. And the 1,4,7,9 is absolutely normal. Golpe is percussion nothing more. It would like be saying to a drummer "why did you hit the snare when it wasn't on the down beat?".



Kalo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 16:13:37)

quote:

Absolutely not. And the 1,4,7,9 is absolutely normal. Golpe is percussion nothing more. It would like be saying to a drummer "why did you hit the snare when it wasn't on the down beat?".



Thanks Ricardo!

What you stated makes sense!

I am so thankful for this forum because I was under the impression that Golpe was only used for the accents.

I've seen many of times that the accents were not on the accents which made wonder why?

So, thanks again to everyone who responded!

Kalo



Leñador -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 27 2012 19:45:06)

quote:

Absolutely not. And the 1,4,7,9 is absolutely normal.


Time for me to go back to school............

I see, in a super basic beginners compas 1 starts it, 4 & 7 is a chord change and 9 is the beat before you spell out the root Emaj(is that considered a remate?) That doesn't seem as odd to me as I first thought.....I should have had a better base in counting to 12 before I started flamenco, I blame los angeles unified school district.......



Ricardo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 28 2012 4:51:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lenador

quote:

Absolutely not. And the 1,4,7,9 is absolutely normal.


Time for me to go back to school............

I see, in a super basic beginners compas 1 starts it, 4 & 7 is a chord change and 9 is the beat before you spell out the root Emaj(is that considered a remate?) That doesn't seem as odd to me as I first thought.....I should have had a better base in counting to 12 before I started flamenco, I blame los angeles unified school district.......


To be frank, vast majority of workshop or private students I encounter, regardless of how well or how much they have played, did not get a basic compas foundation from which to build from, and I end up showing EVERYONE pretty much the same thing, keeping a slow compas for solea as one might for an escobilla in a dance class. There is not really counting to 12 even, just keep a sold groove with strumming and arpegios. Counting doesn't need to even enter the picture till after we are all grooving at various tempos and controling time. For any palo to be honest (that has compas). I will say we may count as high as number 3 in some cases, but nothing more complex until the ball is rolling.

Ricardo



Kalo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 29 2012 0:24:41)

quote:

To be frank, vast majority of workshop or private students I encounter, regardless of how well or how much they have played, did not get a basic compas foundation from which to build from, and I end up showing EVERYONE pretty much the same thing, keeping a slow compas for solea as one might for an escobilla in a dance class. There is not really counting to 12 even, just keep a sold groove with strumming and arpegios. Counting doesn't need to even enter the picture till after we are all grooving at various tempos and controling time. For any palo to be honest (that has compas). I will say we may count as high as number 3 in some cases, but nothing more complex until the ball is rolling. Ricardo


So, basically is it better to learn how to groove first than learn to count compas?

Thanks,

Kalo



Ricardo -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 29 2012 6:13:02)

quote:

So, basically is it better to learn how to groove first than learn to count compas?


YES!!!!



Leñador -> RE: Golpe/Accents (Aug. 29 2012 13:39:36)

This worked really well for me in your FDH compas video. My first teacher did something similar where he'd just play the compas over and over till I played along with him, no counting. It feels really natural/organic. I'm glad to hear it's not blasphemy. If I ever got good enough to have students I'd totally go this route.



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