Just when you think you know someone... (Full Version)

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Graham_B -> Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 30 2012 20:09:51)

The following is about a guy that works for me...

Published on Monday 30 July 2012 14:28

A man with desperate money problems claimed he had a bomb and demanded cash from terrified Wigan bank staff, a court heard.

John Walsh, a 48-year-old customer services manager, had feared his home would be repossessed and so carried out his bizarre bid.

Walsh, of Coralin Way, Ashton-in-Makerfield, pleaded guilty to communicating false information with intent and attempted robbery of £50,000.

Liverpool Crown Court heard that Walsh went into the Lloyds TSB bank in Standish on July 4 this year and communicated to bank teller Nicola Armstrong that he had a bomb and demanded the cash.

Judge David Aubrey, QC, said: “On one hand it is an extremely serious case and on the other hand there are many, many personal mitigating features to it.

“His emotions were out of control as a consequence of severe debt and intended re-possession of his property.”

Defence barrister, Raymond Herman, asked for sentence on Walsh, who appeared via video link from Liverpool Prison, to be adjourned to enable a psychiatric report to be prepared.

“It is important that the court should know from a more expert vantage point about the state of his mind at the time of the incident,” he explained.

Further remanding Walsh in custody for sentence in September, the judge, who will not be available for that hearing, told him: “You have pleaded guilty to an extremely serious matter and a judge will have to balance your personal mitigation which is very self-evident from what you said to police.

“I have some reservations whether that report will assist the sentencing judge beyond what has already been disclosed but I won’t stand in the way of that report being obtained.”

“I regret it means a little while before you will be sentenced,” he added.
[:-]



Ron.M -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 30 2012 20:30:39)

Hi Graham,

Yes, it's also amazing that HSBC just say "we are very sorry for mis-selling products to our customers" and get fined a paltry amount (in banking terms) and Barclays don't seem to know anything about fiddling the LIBOR rate affecting millions of businesses, pensions and savings customers.
Nobody gets sentenced to anything there.
To big to fail. Too big to bust.

cheers,

Ron



Estevan -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 30 2012 21:24:18)

Our economic ruin means freedom for the super-rich



Ricardo -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 14:06:02)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Estevan

Our economic ruin means freedom for the super-rich

I don't care much of politics and economics etc....but the picture painted for me is of an elite group of rich people hiding in the wilderness in log cabins they built with bare hands, hunting and fishing, meanwhile with a giant mountain of cash stored in the back yard. Everyone gets so worked up when rich people don't spend their money. [:D]

THe filthy rich people I have met or know personally seem to be a little ignorant and bliss full with their money, and get ripped off left and right paying out exorbitant amounts for piddly crap things normal people would never think to waste hard earned cash on. And then they saddly feel proud to give handouts, or toss cash to show off in some cases as if they can "do" anything they want....it's really sad. But the complaining people of this world need to grow up IMO.

I got an idea. THere should be a law where people have to "trade places" for a month to see how things balance out. Raise your hand who wants to be the elite guy for a month? What the f u ck will you do? Something better than bill gates I assume saving aids patients???? Rich people will enjoy the TRUE cameradery and love and respect from people around them....the poor guy that gets the cash will quickly get burnt out on all the fakery, arm tugging coatail riding and attemped leeching from those around them, and long for a simple genuine friendship.



XXX -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 16:21:04)

Dont care what people spend their money for. Even drugs i really dont care. But if a poor guy, or anybody who cant afford certain things, sees a rich guy not remotely being able to spend all the money (or to be more precise: the income) he gets, and NOT raises an eyebrow as to WHO in this economy is in advantage, then somethings going wrong. Ricardo you are right in saying they need to grow up. People are dumb as fu ck because they rather complain than criticize; which basically means they havent understood what the purpose of this economy called "capital"ism is... [8|]

People are so eager to believe that they actually live in a good world, when reality is different. I think it is a psychological problem, that they dont want to admit they are part of something very evil. They dont want to be accountable for anything bad happening in the world, yet they are part of the system and empowering it getting on day by day. As long as they get on with their usually comparatively poor life, they dont care. We need people who CARE and not the opportunistic idiots that are living today. You have to account to yourself about the society you are living in. If not you are basically living at the level of consciousness of an animal, being pushed and pulled by whatever nature phenomens it doesnt understand.



Ricardo -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 17:59:47)

quote:

People are so eager to believe that they actually live in a good world, when reality is different. I think it is a psychological problem, that they dont want to admit they are part of something very evil. They dont want to be accountable for anything bad happening in the world, yet they are part of the system and empowering it getting on day by day. As long as they get on with their usually comparatively poor life, they dont care. We need people who CARE and not the opportunistic idiots that are living today. You have to account to yourself about the society you are living in. If not you are basically living at the level of consciousness of an animal, being pushed and pulled by whatever nature phenomens it doesnt understand.


Evil? Man that's the typical paranoid conspiracy crazy **** again. Look, people are afraid to be honest and open cuz they are scared they are gonna get burned by someone. IN the process of protecting themselves they end up unintentionally hurting or irritating or pushing away others. That's not evil at work LOL. Evil is intentionally hurting someone else for no reason. Opportunistic idiots as you call em exist in all economic classes. Often they learned to be that way cuz they got burned somehow in the past. ITs not evil to turn cold and look out for oneself after lessons learned. We are all animals of course its natural to try to self preserve. Caring people do WHAT THEY CAN regardless of their economic status. IF you are so caring person, please give your money to aids patients like bill gates and stop complaining about what other rich people are doing.[:D]



Ron.M -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 19:00:22)

Oh No!

Another Politico-Economic thread! [:D]

I fully admit liability for taking Graham's original, innocent and interesting local-human interest post to a higher level than was wise. [:D]

cheers,

Ron

(PS: I like reading them anyway!)



Graham_B -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 21:03:34)

Interesting arguments I suppose but global macroeconomics are pretty irrelevant in this case.

This is not a badly paid 'oppressed by the super rich' guy.

Dreadful money management and the denial of the problem including hiding
the truth from his family and friends is closer to the mark. I cannot imagine the pressure he felt under to do something so extreme.

The point I was trying to make is you really never know the people you work with, even close colleagues who you've known for years.

On a more personal note he's asked me to visit him so an interesting Friday morning for me [:-]



BarkellWH -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 21:20:06)

quote:

But if a poor guy, or anybody who cant afford certain things, sees a rich guy not remotely being able to spend all the money (or to be more precise: the income) he gets, and NOT raises an eyebrow as to WHO in this economy is in advantage, then somethings going wrong.


It is a mistake to think that everyone without money or the means to sustain a reasonably decent standard of living got that way because they are "oppressed." There are plenty of examples of people who squander what resources they have, who want "instant gratirfication" and don't save today in order to have more tomorrow, and generally lack the prudence and will to live frugally in order to have a better life. For many, it is not the "system" that is responsible for their condition; rather, it is their own irresponsibility. Not for all, but for many.

Cheers,

Bill



Ron.M -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Jul. 31 2012 21:51:43)

quote:

On a more personal note he's asked me to visit him so an interesting Friday morning for me


Tell him to take up Flamenco guitar for the next 5 years.

Good practise time with no distractions!


cheers,

Ron



Guest -> [Deleted] (Jul. 31 2012 23:09:57)

[Deleted by Admins]



XXX -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 2:51:14)

I didnt mean to use evil if the meaning of that word is "intentionally hurting someone for no reason". What i mean with evil can be studied in ANY news show on ANY Tv channel in this world, just like in any newspaper and im sure anybody will have an example from his life. Also i didnt mean to praise one class and condemn the other. It just should be obvious that the system is set up in a way that one class has always the upper hand. If at this point, somebody doesnt feel the need to explain TO HIMSELF that this is firstly true and secondly why this is supposed to be good for him, then this where my animal copmarison kicks in. Your last remark: I dont care what rich people are doing and i am not so naive to think that giving money to aids patients removes the economic problems and with that the environmental surroundings that enabled such diseases to spread in the first place. Sorry if you thought i am a left wing NGO hippy type of guy. I love efficency and productivity too much for that.

Bill, you are quoting me referencing a rich guy who is "not remotely being able to spend all the money (or to be more precise: the income) he gets" and then you go on talking about poor people "who squander what resources they have". Thats an immediate contradiction i dont even have to go on further.



BarkellWH -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 4:13:32)

quote:

Bill, you are quoting me referencing a rich guy who is "not remotely being able to spend all the money (or to be more precise: the income) he gets" and then you go on talking about poor people "who squander what resources they have". Thats an immediate contradiction i dont even have to go on further.


No contradiction at all, Deniz. The rich guy who is "not remotely being able to spend all the money (or to be more precise: the income) he gets" is irrelevant to my point. And I didn't just refer to "poor people." Regardless of who has wealth and who doesn't, there are many people who could live a good life if they just acted responsibly. In fact, Graham-B stated as much when he described the guy he was writing about. In Graham-B's own words in his post above: "This is not a badly paid 'oppressed by the super rich' guy. Dreadful money management and the denial of the problem including hiding the truth from his family and friends is closer to the mark." A perfect example of someone who is responsible for his own problems.

There are many people, not necessarily poor, who could be living much better if they acted more responsibly, didn't give in to their desire for immediate gratification, and saved and invested some money. I'm not talking about "rich guys." There are plenty of average, middle class people who live well by living responsibly. And plenty more could as well if they would just adopt a responsible attitude and stop blaming others for "oppressing" them.

Cheers,

Bill



XXX -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 12:28:05)

Sorry i didnt read the article and only replied to Ricardo's post. What i mean with contradiction is: you are saying, for example, bad money management is one reason why somebody is poor. "Squandering resourcess" as you say it. Then i say there are striking counter examples like people who have so much that no matter how much they squander, their standard of living does NOT drop. Conclusion being, its not the squandering what makes people poor. And excuse me, but it IS important whether somebody is poor or not. Because that decides about their whole life.



Ricardo -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 14:48:33)

quote:

What i mean with evil can be studied in ANY news show on ANY Tv channel in this world, just like in any newspaper and im sure anybody will have an example from his life.

Ah ok man got you. Well...then it's time for YOU to turn off the boob tube and get out and see the real world more. "an example" from REAL life is not the be all end all of it for sure. And the hint there about spread of communicable disease being caused by economic situation...a touch of the conspiracy theory paranoia again. Big difference between UNDERSTANDING how disease spreads vs being immune from catching it.



XXX -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 15:22:28)

quote:

What i mean with evil can be studied in ANY news show on ANY Tv channel in this world, just like in any newspaper and im sure anybody will have an example from his life.


This was supposed to COUNTER your assumption i would be after conspiracy theories. Usually conspiracy is kept closed... I dont have a TV by the way.
I didnt bring up the aids topic either and i dont claim to be any knowledgeable about it. But what i know is that it is a disease spread because of the unhygienic circumstances in those regions. If newborn babies are infected immediately by it you should maybe rethink your theory of "communicable" (Sex) disease (granted this is an additional way of how it spreads). Dont know if this is news for you but healthcare costs money in africa too, and if there is no money in a country there is no reason why not half of the population shouldnt die? I think its a pretty clear nonetheless correct conclusion about the world and do you still think i believe in conspiracy?



Ricardo -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 17:55:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deniz

quote:

What i mean with evil can be studied in ANY news show on ANY Tv channel in this world, just like in any newspaper and im sure anybody will have an example from his life.


This was supposed to COUNTER your assumption i would be after conspiracy theories. Usually conspiracy is kept closed... I dont have a TV by the way.
I didnt bring up the aids topic either and i dont claim to be any knowledgeable about it. But what i know is that it is a disease spread because of the unhygienic circumstances in those regions. If newborn babies are infected immediately by it you should maybe rethink your theory of "communicable" (Sex) disease (granted this is an additional way of how it spreads). Dont know if this is news for you but healthcare costs money in africa too, and if there is no money in a country there is no reason why not half of the population shouldnt die? I think its a pretty clear nonetheless correct conclusion about the world and do you still think i believe in conspiracy?


Hmm. Evil as YOU mean it can be studied by watching TV news...but YOU don't have a TV???
Conspiracy theory means reading too much into certain actions or events in hopes to find a secret group to blame. An actual conspiracy you and I wont' know about on TV or otherwise until it all comes out whatever it is...and it will.

Would be good to educate yourself on aids, just to be safe. It's not caused by the evil rich elite hoarding money.
Infected babies means a need to be re-think about a "theory" of being infected by sex??? What then exactly your "theory" on HOW babies are concieved??? God made em or the stork brings em to your door infected maybe or not? [:D]

Anyway, it's moving off topic. My point was that rich people are not necessarily doing so well in life just cuz they have money. That's my point, no need to blame em all for the "evil" of the world.

Ricardo



BarkellWH -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 19:39:22)

quote:

What i mean with contradiction is: you are saying, for example, bad money management is one reason why somebody is poor. "Squandering resourcess" as you say it. Then i say there are striking counter examples like people who have so much that no matter how much they squander, their standard of living does NOT drop. Conclusion being, its not the squandering what makes people poor.


Of course the wealthy can squander money and not be adversely affected, while those who are not wealthy (not just the poor, but ordinary middle class people, too) who squander money will find themselves in financial trouble. The point is that many people who find themselves in financial trouble (such as Graham-B's example) got in that position through their own irresponsible actions: They did not manage their resources well, very likely bought a flat-screen TV they could not afford, a new car they could not afford, wanted instant gratification, etc. Conclusion: Irresponsible squandering of one's resources does have a great effect on one's economic/financial position. Not everyone who is poor was irresponsible for sure. But many who complain about their financial position have only themselves and their irresponsible actions to blame. For those people, it's time to take responsibility for the choices they made and stop blaming "the system."

Cheers,

Bill



XXX -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 19:57:11)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
It's not caused by the evil rich elite hoarding money. ...
That's my point, no need to blame em all for the "evil" of the world.


Sounds pretty silly, I didnt say anything like that. Just read the written word and dont interpret too much.

About "evil": means nothing else than whatever economic/political problem is there. Its the PHENOMENON that is TO BE EXPLAINED. And yes, the newspapers & TVs are full of it. There is no conspiracy or bad intentions of willingly hurting someone.

About Aids: "HIV is transmitted by three main routes: sexual contact, exposure to infected body fluids or tissues, and from mother to child during pregnancy, delivery, or breastfeeding (known as vertical transmission)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS

Bill, if two people squander resources and one guy gets rich through that and the other one poor, then "squandering resources" obviously cannot be the reason, why one guy gets rich through that and the other one poor. This is just basic logic.



estebanana -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 1 2012 21:37:52)

I wish some of you tough talkers would squander some resources on one of my guitars....[:D] I can help you be cash poor, but guitar rich!



Ricardo -> RE: Just when you think you know someone... (Aug. 2 2012 13:30:00)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

I wish some of you tough talkers would squander some resources on one of my guitars....[:D] I can help you be cash poor, but guitar rich!

Ok. I want it to be a conde look and sound a like!!!! [:D]



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