A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Full Version)

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srshea -> A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Jul. 28 2012 22:53:34)

Just wanted to bring y'all's attention to a new English translation of Jose Luis Ortiz Nuevo's oral autobiography of Pericon de Cadiz. The translation is by John Moore, who's a Foro member and has posted here in the past. Maybe he's too modest to hype his book here himself, so I'll do it for him!

The book was originally published in 1975-- drawing on recordings Ortiz Nuevo made of the Gaditano singer telling stories of his own life and of other flamenco figuras in is ambit, as well as guasa-fied anecdotes about talking dogs-- and then reissued in a new edition in 2008, upon which this translation was based. The Spanish edition appears to be about 270 pages in length, but this one's just under 200. There's mention of photos in some of the introductory text, but no photos in the book. So maybe financial restrictions forced an abridgment of the book, but full-length or not, this is a welcome arrival for English speaking aficonados.

This just showed up in the mail today, so I've only had a chance to scan through it and read a few passages, but from what I've seen so far this looks to be a top-notch job overall, and a very readable, fluid translation which appears to be free of the sort of typographical errors found in other low-budget English language flamenco books. The typeface and construction of the book is very similar to that of Paco Sevilla's recent Seeking Silverio, so if you're familiar with that, this is of comparable quality. There are numerous footnotes, a glossary, and capsule biographies of the flamencos mentioned in the book.

The shelves aren't exactly overflowing with really good flamenco related books in English, particularly books that go straight to the source and are of such important historical value, so this publication strikes me as something pretty special and as something of a big deal. Moore seems to be a true aficionado who knows his stuff, and the presentation of the book and the notes and appendices provide a lot of helpful context. A lot of the stuff is basic, but I'm already seeing plenty stuff that's new to me, so I imagine this book will be of interest to many of us, regardless of whether we're just starting to build our aficion or have been at it for a while. AND this sucker's only twelve bucks, so there you go.

And did I mention talking dogs?



Inverted A Press



Richard Jernigan -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Jul. 29 2012 18:14:10)

I'm not familiar with the English version of the Pericon book, but I read the Spanish one last year. Informative, entertaining, at times hilarious!

Paco Sevilla's "Seeking Silverio" is great, too. Although presented as fiction, much of it is fact, as sorted out in the appendix. It's the tale of Chacon and the Molina brothers starting out on their careers, setting out from Jerez on a walking trip through Andalucia, playing at the local taverns.

RNJ



Dave K -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Jul. 29 2012 18:34:32)

Thanks a lot Adam, I'm really looking forward to reading that book.
A trailer on youtube:




Cheers,
Dave



granjuanillo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Sep. 17 2012 20:22:50)

Thanks very much for the review! The book s a complete translation - the font is somewhat smaller than the original. There are two Spanish versions - the 1975 one, with pictures, and a later 2006 (?) without. We didn't have rights to pictures, so no pictures, but everything is there, with added footnotes and appendices.

I just got back from Sevilla where the Bienal had organized a press conference; the book is a real gem - the Spanish version, that is, as it provides a window to a by-gone era. It is full of history, culture , flamenco and arte. I translated it to try to make this available to readers who can't read the Spanish and added the footnotes and appendices to help put the stories in context - I'll let others decide whether I was successful, but even when I fall short, the original material is great.

Here is a video of an interview with Ortiz Nuevo, where he talks about the book and Pericon:



By the way, I encourage aficionados to buy the book - available on amazon (.com, .uk, .es) - it is inexpensive, and I don't get any money - the 10% goes to Ortiz Nuevo, who deserves it.

thanks, John



RobF -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 9 2023 19:06:55)

Hi John, I noticed you recently posted on another thread and thought I’d see if the book is still available. It is and I was able to purchase a copy from Amazon today.

Looking forward to reading it.



Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 10 2023 12:35:09)




silddx -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 10 2023 14:54:12)

Thanks for the heads up, I just bought it too!



devilhand -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 10 2023 20:45:06)

I wonder why Perricon de Cadiz? It could have been any other well known cantaor like Terromoto or Manolo Caracol etc.

Talking about Ortiz Nuevo, his opinion about Rosalia is ridiculious. I agree totally with the author of this article.

https://www.expoflamenco.com/en/bordonazo-new/the-poet-and-rosalia



RobF -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 10 2023 22:21:47)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand
I wonder why Perricon de Cadiz? It could have been any other well known cantaor like Terromoto or Manolo Caracol etc.


I haven’t read it yet but I’m not sure it matters who the book is about as much as how well it gives an impression of what life was like during the era.

Kind of like “The Flamencos of Cadiz Bay”. The copy that I obtained is a first edition and it didn’t have the later updates which apparently identified all of the characters by real name (although some are identified). But it doesn’t matter. I found it interesting because there were aspects of some of the characters and their situations that I could relate to from my own, albeit limited, travels in Andalucía. In that regard, maybe it’s more about how the garlic and the spices work in the dish, than necessarily about the main ingredient, if that makes any sense at all.



devilhand -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 10 2023 22:56:33)

Ok. The title of the book gives the impression someone wrote a book about him. But as mentioned in the first post of this thread, what Pericon de Cadiz told about his own life and other flamenco figuras is documented in this book. He must have been a good storyteller.



Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 11 2023 19:28:50)

quote:

I wonder why Perricon de Cadiz? It could have been any other well known cantaor like Terromoto or Manolo Caracol etc.
. Pericon is older than those guys, and from Cadiz. Sure a book from them would be interesting too, so what?

About this Ortiz Nuevo opinion of Rosalia…I would need context of his quote. Because, on one hand he is saying she is disseminating the art form en mass to a public unaware of the art that goes on behind closed doors (regardless of the interpretive quality, making it “known” is what he is saying). Silverio making it available to the general public, and Pastora taking on a massive recording project over the years for posterity. So allowing cante to reach masses, she is way ahead of Camaron even. However, I also want to put forward that he might be speaking sarcastically, allowing us to laugh at what we know are mediocre or less than exemplary interpretations, to the point of insulting or disrespectful versions, and this false representation has now been digested by the world as what flamenco IS (unfortunately). It could go either way.



devilhand -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 11 2023 23:47:33)

quote:

About this Ortiz Nuevo opinion of Rosalia…I would need context of his quote.

You can read it here.

https://www.eldiario.es/andalucia/lacajanegra/cajon_flamenco/quiere-ver-machismo-flamenco-ve_1_1365975.html

Anyhow. We should leave RRRosalía alone.

Btw, she seems like a nice girl.




Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 12 2023 18:27:46)

Right, it is pretty much, like I said at first, appealing to the masses. He is not comparing her singing ability to theirs at all, only their popular appeal. Nothing in the statement below I disagree with, except for lighting a candle or whatever nonsensical praise. Appealing to the masses is not a big deal.

quote:

The reasons and anti-reasons are never absolute, but although Rosalía is now in the triumph of the masses, flamenco does not abandon her. In this regard, I have heard crazy comments, which pretend to ignore that 19th century flamenco is fashionable music, and that what the form is is contact with the popular masses. Before that it had fallen into a minority academicism, full of censorship codes and warnings, from which it was fortunately saved. Until now, everything Rosalía does is flamenco, which is a music of encounter and natural passion, in which Cuba and the gypsy and many other things converge. What she does, even on a stage with thousands of lights, is authentic flamenco. Everything about her has flamenco keys, and the fact that she manages to get ten thousand people to play palmas por tangos is wonderful. She contains in herself everything that the master Morente demanded: knowledge, hobby, doing it since ancient times. In each of her songs there are 14 or 20 flamenco signs. What she does is what Silverio did in the 19th century and Pastora Pavón in the 20th. We should put candles on her and thank her for how much she does for this art.



devilhand -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 12 2023 22:11:27)

It reads like he wants to see a similarity between 19th century flamenco and Rosalia's music. Both are música de moda.

Any popular music appealing to the masses is flamenco? I don't think so. Even if this music had different ethnic music elements.



Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 5:42:10)

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

It reads like he wants to see a similarity between 19th century flamenco and Rosalia's music. Both are música de moda.

Any popular music appealing to the masses is flamenco? I don't think so. Even if this music had different ethnic music elements.

Jeez no it doesn’t read like that. He means, flamenco was underground before Silverio opened the cafe cantantes and popularized it to the masses. It is not complicated. And the critic of Oritz Nuevo is taking what he says out of contextual meaning.



Richard Jernigan -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 18:52:32)

Ortiz Nuevo's article is datelined September, 2019.

Though I haven't followed Rosalia's career in any detail, my impression is that it has evolved significantly during the 3 1/2 years since then.

I wonder whether Ortiz Nuevo would still say that what Rosalia does is flamenco?

RNJ



kitarist -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 19:06:47)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

Ortiz Nuevo's article is datelined September, 2019.

Though I haven't followed Rosalia's career in any detail, my impression is that it has evolved significantly during the 3 1/2 years since then.

I wonder whether Ortiz Nuevo would still say that what Rosalia does is flamenco?

RNJ


Wow, nice catch, Richard. That would actually explain a lot!



estebanana -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 19:12:31)

A few years ago the New Yorker magazine hired a Taco Critic who insisted that Burritos are a form of tacos. He cited a Mexican food writer and declared case closed, no arguments with me, tacos are burritos. Well the San Francisco Mission style burrito was not discussed and I believe many Mexicans would disagree with the New Yorker taco critic, and he was from Puerto Rico! Outrageous. Native Californians and Texans have more right to be taco critics, whether we be gringo or Mexican.


This aggression will not stand, man. New Yorkers passing judgment on tacos? I don’t think so.



BarkellWH -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 19:59:21)

quote:


A few years ago the New Yorker magazine hired a Taco Critic who insisted that Burritos are a form of tacos. He cited a Mexican food writer and declared case closed, no arguments with me, tacos are burritos. Well the San Francisco Mission style burrito was not discussed and I believe many Mexicans would disagree with the New Yorker taco critic, and he was from Puerto Rico! Outrageous. Native Californians and Texans have more right to be taco critics, whether we be gringo or Mexican.


This aggression will not stand, man. New Yorkers passing judgment on tacos? I don’t think so.


You can add native Arizonans, along with Californians and Texans, as having more right to being taco critics than some snowflake writing for the New Yorker. As a native Arizonan whose mother spent her first 16 years in Mexico before the gringos got kicked out of the U.S.-owned oil and railroad businesses, expropriated by the Mexican government in the '30's, I ate tacos every Sunday evening made by my mother, who knew a thing or two about Mexican food. I can assure you that tacos are not burritos, not even close. they are two very different items.

I remember my mother saying that the Chimichanga originated in Tucson very early on and spread to Mexico via Nogales. The point being that, somewhat analogous to Chicken Chow Mein being a US knock-off of Chinese food that was unheard of in China, Chimichangas were not of Mexican origin; rather, they were invented (if that is the correct term) in Arizona and spread to Sonora. Since then, I have heard several variations of the story, but all place the origin of the Chimichanga in Tucson, Arizona, which then spread to Mexico and is now believed by most gringos to be of Mexican origin.

Sometimes the New Yorker takes its sophistication a little too seriously and ends up with egg on its face. Remember its notice of a Rosalia performance not long ago, calling her an exemplar of "Nuevo Flamenco"? Can we place Rosalia in the same category as Chimichangas and Chicken Chow Mein, believed by many to be "authentic, even if Nuevo" when in fact she is a knock-off bearing little resemblance to the real thing? The New Yorker should stick to publishing up-and-coming short story authors.

Bill



Richard Jernigan -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 13 2023 23:36:15)

Burrito is a taco? Puerto Rican taco critic?

O tempora, O mores!

I was well into my fifties when I ate my first chimichanga in Riverside, California. Born and raised in South Texas, where 90% of people spoke Spanish at home, I had never heard of them.

Still, absurdities regularly appear on menus in Texas. Chicken fajitas? The fajita is the toughest cut of meat in a cow, the diaphragm. In the old days, when you killed a cow you gave the fajita to poor people, for them to figure out how to eat it. Poor people are at least as ingenious as anyone else. They marinated it in papaya juice to tenderize it, cut it into thin strips so it could be chewed, grilled it and served it on on a day old toasted tortilla with vegetables and pico de gallo.

When I see "chicken fajita" on a menu, I envision a tiny toasted tortilla with a diaphonous slice of chicken diaphragm on it, not at all what you would get if you ordered one.

Not as heinous, however, as experiences in Jacksonville, Florida and Fort Lauderdale. I have been served objects denominated as tacos which consisted of some sort of wheat flour flat bread folded around flavor free pulled chicken and a variety of vegetables, all slathered with too much mayonnaise. This condiment was pretentiously labeled "aioli" on the menu, but was without any trace of garlic.

We did stumble into a place in Fort Lauderdale which actually served Mexican food. It was properly seasoned, except for being especially bland. I asked the waitress whether they had any Tabasco sauce. She immediately delivered four bottles of different salsas picantes. No gringo Tabasco sauce was among them. They were all good.

And in Orlando there is an Ecuadorian restaurant with a bright ambience, friendly prompt service, and a variety of delicious ceviches.

RNJ



estebanana -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 14 2023 1:27:07)

The chair would like to recognize and acknowledge the good gentleman from Arizona and apologize for oversight. New Mexico may weigh in also please, any representative from the great state of NM?


You of course immediately understood my reference to Rosalia and the Imposter Taco critic.

A Puerto Rican from NY could maybe judge a bagel, bialy or at a stretch a bowl of baked beans. Maybe understand a tamale wrapped in banana leaf. But leave Tacos to the southwesterners.

I grew up in Southern California and spent many days down in Baja surfing the rock reefs between Rosarito and K55, my first trip was when I was 14.

Along the highway guys would build a wood fire under a thick piece of flat scrap metal and cook carne asada, chunks of ling cod and pieces of lobster. They’d serve tacos one at a time while you squat and take turns ordering them, then he’d assemble the taco and garnish it with sliced tomatoes, cilantro and onions and a salsa procured from an ice chest sitting next to him.

These tacos were some of the best meals I’ve ever eaten. A bit worn out from a morning of surfing, you drive up the road from the beach eat your bespoke taco lunch and head back to the sand to rest until the afternoon wind died down enough to surf into sunset. Then out to a modest restaurant for beans, tortillas, lobster and a corona beer or two or more.

Recently in remembrance of those beautiful taco surfing days I made the same taco at home with grilled yellowtail collar, my own carrot jalapeño salsa and a bit of beans I cooked up with a hamhock like my mother taught me.



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estebanana -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 14 2023 1:43:59)

And the next morning I did the honorable thing with the leftovers from tacos-



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Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 14 2023 13:59:18)

quote:

I wonder whether Ortiz Nuevo would still say that what Rosalia does is flamenco?


I am not going to investigate timelines of her career. I have heard her sing Malagueña del Mellizo and other famous cantes on her recordings. This is similar to saying Ottmar Leibert does not play flamenco, and there he is having a go at bulerias. Flamenco is what it is as a musical form. In happy feet they tell the young one “that is just not Penguin”, so there is this qualifier way to use the word “flamenco” to mean if it is not “good” it is not “flamenco”. I don’t think this is fair. If we know what is flamenco or not, truly, we can label it whether we like it or not. I admit she is bringing flamenco to the masses, whether I like it or not. Her version has “appeal” that Aurelio is not ever going to have, and in the world of flamenco proper we see people with different tastes. If she raps using tangos and it implies regaeton, then it is a fusion. But tangos is flamenco, so that’s that, and if she stick a letra in then it is flamenco, even if poor taste.



Richard Jernigan -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 15 2023 18:26:53)

Yes, I have listened to her version of Chacon. It is clearly flamenco, though hardly traditional.

However, in the interview Ortiz Nuevo says:

" Hasta el momento, todo lo que hace Rosalía es flamenco, que es una música de encuentro y de pasión natural, en la que confluían Cuba con lo gitano y otras muchas cosas. Lo que ella hace, aunque sea en un escenario con miles de luces, es flamenco auténtico. Todo en ella tiene claves flamencas, y que logre poner a diez mil personas a tocar palmas por tangos es maravilloso. Contiene en sí misma todo lo que el maestro Morente exigía: conocimiento, afición, hacerlo desde lo antiguo. En cada una de sus canciones hay 14 o 20 indicios flamencos."

...implying that everything Rosalia published up to the time of the interview (September, 2019) was either traditional flamenco, or flamenco with a modernized sensibility perhaps, or was at least significantly influenced by traditional flamenco.

My take is that much of the material here,

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rosalia

published after Ortiz Nuevo wrote the above, is not noticeably flamenco influenced, proceeding from distinctly separate genres.

I don't object to Rosalia's career path. Spanish society in her generation is radically different from the time when traditional flamenco arose and flourished. When I was her age the old regime was on its last legs, but it still existed, impoverished, outdated and authoritarian.

Now Spain is largely a modern European country, despite the small recalcitrant gypsy minority, and the discrimination practiced against them and North African immigrants.

So is Rosalia, in Chicken Teriyaki mode, still flamenco?

RNJ



Mark2 -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 15 2023 19:31:05)

That taco looks legit!!


quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

The chair would like to recognize and acknowledge the good gentleman from Arizona and apologize for oversight. New Mexico may weigh in also please, any representative from the great state of NM?


You of course immediately understood my reference to Rosalia and the Imposter Taco critic.

A Puerto Rican from NY could maybe judge a bagel, bialy or at a stretch a bowl of baked beans. Maybe understand a tamale wrapped in banana leaf. But leave Tacos to the southwesterners.

I grew up in Southern California and spent many days down in Baja surfing the rock reefs between Rosarito and K55, my first trip was when I was 14.

Along the highway guys would build a wood fire under a thick piece of flat scrap metal and cook carne asada, chunks of ling cod and pieces of lobster. They’d serve tacos one at a time while you squat and take turns ordering them, then he’d assemble the taco and garnish it with sliced tomatoes, cilantro and onions and a salsa procured from an ice chest sitting next to him.

These tacos were some of the best meals I’ve ever eaten. A bit worn out from a morning of surfing, you drive up the road from the beach eat your bespoke taco lunch and head back to the sand to rest until the afternoon wind died down enough to surf into sunset. Then out to a modest restaurant for beans, tortillas, lobster and a corona beer or two or more.

Recently in remembrance of those beautiful taco surfing days I made the same taco at home with grilled yellowtail collar, my own carrot jalapeño salsa and a bit of beans I cooked up with a hamhock like my mother taught me.




Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



BarkellWH -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 15 2023 20:28:38)

quote:

So is Rosalia, in Chicken Teriyaki mode, still flamenco?


Probably to the so-called "masses," who no doubt find her as "authentic" as they do chimichangas as Mexican and chicken chow mein as Chinese. And to the sophisticates at the New Yorker.

Bill



kitarist -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 15 2023 22:58:31)

Woohoo - just got mine !



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chester -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 16 2023 7:32:28)

quote:

So is Rosalia, in Chicken Teriyaki mode, still flamenco?


i guess that depends on whether a person can be "flamenco", or is it a style of music?
if she sang that song at a gypsy wedding and everyone was standing around clapping and a few people were dancing, would that be flamenco?
can a motorcycle be flamenco?



Richard Jernigan -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 16 2023 19:48:13)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chester

quote:

So is Rosalia, in Chicken Teriyaki mode, still flamenco?


i guess that depends on whether a person can be "flamenco", or is it a style of music?
if she sang that song at a gypsy wedding and everyone was standing around clapping and a few people were dancing, would that be flamenco?
can a motorcycle be flamenco?


Please excuse the ellipsis. ...., is Rosalia still singing flamenco?

RNJ



Ricardo -> RE: A Thousand and One Stories of Pericon de Cadiz (Feb. 17 2023 12:43:14)

quote:

So is Rosalia, in Chicken Teriyaki mode, still flamenco?


Not on that one. Basically a minimalistic Reggaeton she is rapping over with autotune. However, I consider the rhythm of Reggaeton to be the standard rumba accent. And this pattern has relationships with Tangos and Bulerias (compas, not cante of course.)



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