RE: connecting

RE: connecting (Full Version)

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paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 29 2012 19:43:25)
You need to ask other reputable musicians how they charge and make your own price list. Here's mine. You will have to line up the fee with the # of hours. Price List for Anthony Garcia - Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, and Flamenco Dance Corporate - Private Corporate/private 1hr Mon - Thurs only 2 hours (weekend min.) 3 hours 4 hours Solo $295 $395 $495 $625 Duo – 2 guitars $550 $750 $950 $1225 Duo - w/Bass $550 $800 $1,000 $1200 Duo - w/percussion $550 $800 $850 $925 Duo - w/drums (kit) & percussion $550 $775 $850 $950 Trio $800 $1,200 $1,500 $1,800 Quartet $1050 $1,500 $1,800 $2,200 Dancers (Based on 2 dancers) $350 $450 $550 $625 Trio of musicians plus 2 dancers $1,075 $1,700 $2,275 It is best to book 2 dancers together - - - Weddings Weddings 1hr for Ceremony* (before 3pm) Ceremony and Cocktail Hour Ceremony plus 2 hours (3 total) Ceremony plus 3 hours (4 total) Ceremony plus 4 hours (5 total) Ceremony and cocktail hour (solo) $350 $500 $600 $650 $750 Ceremony only – duo 2 guitarists $650 $925 $1,100 $1,250 $1,500 Ceremony only – duo bass & guitar (cocktail hour) $650 - - - - Ceremony solo - duo bass & guitar - $800 $975 $1,050 $1,250 Ceremony solo – duo 2 guitarists - $800 $975 $1,050 Ceremony solo / trio of bass, guit. perc. for cocktail and/or reception - $1,050 $1,350 $1,650 $2,050 Ceremony solo / quartet bass, guit. perc. for cocktail and/or reception - $1,500 $1,900 $2,325 $2,750 Trio of musicians plus 2 dancers - $1,425 $1,800 $2,350 $2,850 Pricing is flexible, but please know that we do have hard costs of equipment, consumables and we rehearse, often. Travel - Temecula $40 Travel - Orange County $50 Travel - Los Angeles $60 Travel - Simi Valley, Camarillo $70 Travel - Palm Springs $70 If more than person has been contracted, we will carpool to save on gas & other expenses Coordinators, caterers, hotels, resorts and agents, you have a window of up to a 15% discount to accommodate budgets and to encourage brides & grooms and other groups to hire you as well. All prices include set-up and breakdown, insurance, battery power if necessary for up to 2 hours Discount guidelines: Discount is meant to make room in the budget for a coordinator or to accommodate a special service which otherwise would not be possible $495 for difficult/maximal movement, ie. When equipment must be completely broken down, loaded into car and reassembled at new location or broken down and transported from a ceremony area to a different cocktail area. We provide our own sound equipment * Extra microphone, stand and cable available to plug into PA for $50 2 hour minimum on Friday and Saturday evenings for events starting after or extending beyond 3:00pm A one hour ceremony booking must end by 3:00pm, or I must be able to book 2 ceremonies in one day Percussion = bongos, congas, derbuka/dumbek, cajón, djembe, shakers All music is flamenco with hints of jazz, classical, and Latin Dancers require a wooden dance floor, 4 X 6 min., I have one available for $100 Dance shows should be broken up into 20 minute segments, 2 within each hour For questions, please contact Anthony - anthony@agarciaguitar.com or (858) 882-7152

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 29 2012 19:47:16)
WOW that's great Paleto u got it down !!! its good to have all this options and prizes down like that...makes it more official. gives them plenty of choices and are less likely to try and negotiate with all this options....but...i know some still do i do the same with the options...they got about 4 choices, for 4 different budgets and with diff elements involved...(second guitar, cajon, dancer/dancers, singer, etc..) festival option /private, ....big festival option ( big stage, 2 singers, 2 guitarists 5 or 6 dancers, cajon, extra musicians) smaller festival stage...etc. great stuff man

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 29 2012 19:51:46)
The clearer you are, the easier it is for them to make a decision. Also, pay your other musicians and dancers what they ask. Be sure to find out what they need to be paid and make that part of your price list. Know that their rehearsal time (both with you and alone) should be part of how you pay them for an event. I pay my bassist and percussionist at least $250 minimum unless we are doing a showcase. I try to get them $300 because my style is so specific and unusual that they have to work harder at learning it and knowing the tunes, which have at least 5 or 6 different sections. Only a few have 2 or 3 different sections. So it's only fair that I pay them more than other musicians they perform with because what I do is more demanding.

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 29 2012 19:55:24)
quote: Also, pay your other musicians and dancers what they ask. Be sure to find out what they need to be paid and make that part of your price list yes that's important...i do my best to pay everyone i work with as good as i can (often times put my own pay last)...always got my eyes on the bigger picture, i am not looking for the extra $200 i am looking for the extra $2000...I am thinking...if i keep putting on the best shows possible, with the best people possible.....eventually ...it will be my turn as the show carries my name and if its good it reflects good on me...if it comes up often enough in a good light hopefully gets me in there with the festival organizers...(and its slowly starting to be recently, decent pay and decent treatment, dosent make you feel like some cheap busker ) I want the shows that allow me to be proud of what i do, not the "fame" but the shows where i get to do the type of flamenco that inspires me...no restrictions...( as in i cant have a singer and cajon player cause they trying to save money)...and i wanna have enough budget to hire everyone necessary for a complete flamenco show...and I wanna have enough money to eat too...dont wanna haggle over prices with cheap people who want the complete flamenco experience but only wanna pay $100 for a guitarist and a dancer...and i dont enjoy doing those 1 dancer and one guitarist gigs in the corner of the restaurant that people ignore, and having them think that they have seen flamenco or that that's what i do.....I dont like people talking during my music and pretend its ok....freaking its not ok, then the same people come to the same show at the theater cause its been in the newspaper and theres an ad for it on tv and pay $60 a ticket and listen to the same song and think wow....u feel like saying...i am the same guy...i played the same thing for you for free last week at the restaurant ...you were sending a text on your iphone... ...... i love singing (freaking give me 2 singers !!), jaleo, cajon, palmeros... full FLAMENCO atmosphere, duende...proper stage, proper lighting ...i want the works nothing modest about what i want i guess and if i didn't know the work i put in every show to make it real id lough at myself cause it looks like such dream lol but ive always wanted it ...always thought long term plan, sacrificed a lot for it, didn't dream...or left it up to chance or tightarse restaurant owners, people who think small.. or business people with no appreciation for music...(lol you try explaining to my mom why i am always broke after my own shows when the show made $8000) ...small step by small step....that ..or continue to only do the shows i wanna do at least, that make me proud and inspire me...nothing is more important to me than to do things i believe in yes if you dont look after your own people...word travels... u run out of flamenco dancers, singers or cajon players.. pretty quick...(unless its a showcase and its worth it)

Doitsujin -> RE: connecting (Jul. 29 2012 21:08:40)
Thats my price list: Price List for Doitsujin - Solo, Duo, Trio, Quartet, and Flamenco Dance: Not gonna happen.

felipe -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 8:26:39)
Well, as far as I remember - everybody have little mony for musicians. I also give a kind of price list with different options (number of dancers and musicians). But going back to the question: for me the most important thing during the performance is that the band members should have fun first (I don't play to much solo, prefer at least a duo). If that doesn't happen, it is almost not possible to move the audience. If you have fun beeing onstage, it just happens. Of course we also adjusts our gigs' playlists: more background pieces for restaurants (let's say rumba or whatever that you can improvise solos over it), small concert venues (more bulerias, alegrias, generally cante chico, that will concentrate audience's attention on stage), bigger venues like theatres (here you have to use as much space as possible, and these are places for more jondo stuff) and outdoor gigs (they can be a kind of pain in ass - the amplification troubles - usually cante chico, but with use of space). Gigs with students - only on students' shows.

Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 9:05:00)
quote: the band members should have fun first Thanks for bringing us Back Felipe , another thread on pricing and negotiation would be good . Back to the subject of conecting , conecting with your band or troupe is another issue that has come up here in need of discussion . Thank you Felipe .

felipe -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 9:53:25)
It is easy to see or more feel if the bands' members have fun with themselves (they can be friends or just people that know each other, but never enemies) or not. For me it's not possible to make a good atmosphere when there is some kind of tension between people. So try to never take your private dramas on stage. We also try to get people connected by talking to them between pieces of music (for example about differences between classical and guitar, guitar technique, flamenco history or whatever, but not vulgar jokes:). Or we made a kind of show - lessons with audience's members (for example castanets).

Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 10:05:06)
quote: We also try to get people connected by talking to them between pieces This is a very powerful aproach . This to me is a serious consideration for all aspiring performers .

shaun -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 14:16:28)
Talking about the right things between each piece makes a big difference. I get a much better response to a piece if I talk about how I relate to the music than if I am giving a sort of flamenco history lesson. Talking about how my mom would tell me that she used to listen to my grandfather play this same piece when she heard me play it makes a much stronger connection with the audience than saying that the piece originated in Málaga. But, if I were performing as part of a cultural exhibition I would probably say the latter and not the former.

Guest -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 15:10:11)
Thanks for the topic Kevin Moments of dis connection with an audience has always concerned me... sometimes it's inevitable as you are there 'filling' some space with other sounds or event too much distraction to connect with everybody...but there are always a few who interact with the music more of a concern is when it's with a listening audience... i think if you play what you love to play without judgements of complexity your auidence will see and hear it for what it is.....music. in many cases what may appear simple can be seen as complex for some one who does'nt play music...and figure the opposite is also true i know i don't play just for my curiosity, in part yes.. but really believe it's my most effective way of communication with other people... i have 'my' solo pieces... more flamenco libre and some baile arrangements... a few 'classical' pieces i like to play... some brazilian and jazz pieces.. original pieces.. people seem to like it...i really enjoy playing it...and want to play so much better my largest ever audience was 1.3 million people...and only felt conneted to the musicians next to me...well a couple of them... the smallest is 3...it was one of the most fullfilling performance's i remember.. i think they happened in the same month.. the 3 punter gig is was part of an 'arts in health' programme they have at an adelaide hospital they employ musicians to go into a ward and play a set you can play what you what to play...no one cares... the terminal ward put music into a very strong perspective for me... fair to say my audience was heavily induced with morphine... but i've never played to 3 crying people before, [other than my kids when they were babies]...i know my playing gave them happiness and was something very special to them......they were so appreciative of the sounds... since playing flamenco my personal playing has been less about myself and more about playing for others....in a good way... i like complexity in music... but it has to hit me in gut first. anyway a rave on topic i hope agree with all the stuff about talking to the audience...we all love a story.

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 16:02:45)
quote: my largest ever audience was 1.3 million people ?????? wow!!...where was that ? do you mean on tv or radio or something ?

Ricardo -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 16:07:37)
I refuse to play proper flamenco guitar solo as back ground music. Well, I have done it of course if the money is really there but I try to push for a duo and stick with rumbas for background work. I have two main gigs, flamenco and rumba, and sometimes will combine them. I disagree that VOLUME is not important, of course it is dependant on the type of venue and the audience. The only times I play flamenco guitar solo are in intimate setting of afficionados or private home like enviroment with EVERYONE watching, or on concert stage. Other wise I do rumba duo minimum. Now volume wise I run the gammut from very quiet intimate acoustic setting to super blasting rock band level. Of course before you agree to a gig you need to establish what it is gonna be. The pro flamenco's I work with wrongly assume I do the rumba gig cuz of needing money and work, but in fact I LOVE the freedom and rhythm and band feeling and making crazy women dance and scream and stuff....it can be as great a feeling affecting people that way as making someone cry with a solo rondeña in their living room or in a concert hall. I have experienced it all from people crying from a soft personal performance to being super in your face loud and intense with hardly a clap after a song. What is required for proper response, is SOMEONE in the audience to be affected and then it branches out to others. Dancers and musicians need each other sometimes, regardless if its pro flamenco master or just some inspired beautiful drunk woman, it affects other audience members. A funny example about volume. I was in rehearsal for a show with very advanced pro flamenco singer from spain, who doubled as percussionist. He was very honest guy and I liked how he was honest when giving critic like "wrong soniquete" or "wrong tonos bro" or point out problems with dance choreography etc. Some folks egos can't handle that stuff but from this particular guy I welcomed it. Anyway after rehearsal of hardcore flamenco puro I asked if he would accompany me along to my late night rumb gig. He was like sure bro....I told him I would embarrass my self singing a couple rumbas but mostly instrumentals with my partner. I said if he didn't mind singing one tangos/rumba I would buy his drinks etc. He was like no problem, and if I wanted he knew bamboleo and could sing that for fun. I was surprised cuz he was VERY serious flamenco master percussion/cante. He assumed I played quiet backgound music in the corner of some bar. When we started playing on the stage at a super loud volume and intensity he was floored and after hearing me sing and play some rumbas he was like "holy **** bro!!! I didn't know this was like a rock concert. You guys are kicking ass, I am too scared to sing bamboleo now!!! " [:D] I was like come on man don't be shy. He was very shy to climb up on stage and sang very soft at first until he got used to the whole power and feeling of thing. As he relaxed and got comfortable he got into it and then after all the women came up to him asked who he was where he's from (he's from barcelona) and he was totally loving it. But still impressed that I could go from one extreme to the other so comfortably. But it's what I have gotten used to from experience and the worst is when you have chosen the WRONG volume or type of music for an audience. Of course if they WANT serious flamenco I can actually pull that off with the Rumba band format.....but in the opposite case where I am prepared for intimate flamenco and they are talking and want to dance and party, it is frustrating to not be prepared to rock the house. My ideal situation is to be in a acoustic juerga with other high calibur artists and aficionados, but those opportunities are comparitively rare here in USA. Even in spain it can be a rarity, that is why I always cherished Gerardo's curso where he affords us the luxury of exactly this every night. It's truly amazing. But I don't find playing loud music with a group with high energy as vastly superior or a sell out of my ideals as an artist. I do what feels right in the moment and hope I can affect both knowledgable people and new comers in the audience. Ricardo

Guest -> RE: connecting (Jul. 30 2012 23:03:20)
quote: do you mean on tv or radio or something ? yes.. well there were 40,000 in the stadium and the rest broadcasted between australia and ireland.. got the call to accompany a celtic singer for a football game oddly enough it was a very isolating performance...could'nt see any of the audience while playing

XXX -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 0:56:06)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ricardo When we started playing on the stage at a super loud volume and intensity he was floored and after hearing me sing and play some rumbas he was like "holy **** bro!!! I didn't know this was like a rock concert. You guys are kicking ass, I am too scared to sing bamboleo now!!! " damn!! Didnt know you sing too. Now I wanna see how you guys performed. Ive never been to a Rumba gig.

Mark2 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 0:57:39)
I've been playing music for a long time, and used to do a lot of performing. I've played in bands ranging from folk, rock, big band jazz, r&B, flamenco, rumba, even played disco in top 40 outfits back in the late 70's and early 80's. It's wonderful when someone has a positive reaction to your performance, no matter what it is-from a simple thanks to women flashing you. There are so many variables I've given up wondering what sort of reaction to expect. For the last several years, I've done mostly corporate events. One of the things I've noticed is that often the more money your being paid, the less people clap. I call this "Too rich to clap" Conversely, the best moments often come when there's little money involved. Someone playing palmas for you really well, totally locked into your playing. Playing rhythm for a great soloist, seeing the audience getting taken away by the skill and feeling of the player. Solo gigs at corporates can be fun when there are people who are interested, but sometimes you are more like wallpaper. It's as if the people throwing the gig want the guests to understand that they care enough about the event to hire live music, but they really don't want to hear it much. At a recent corporate, they hired four of us to play for a big company at the ritz. They had us set up, then go to the green room, where we were invited to have dinner from the room service menu. After eating steak and seafood, they came in and told us the speeches ran long and we didn't have time to play. We laughed about that gig-4 of us getting paid to have dinner and hang out. One style of music I really never got into is country. But at a gig at a winery with a trio, it turned out all the guests were from Texas. They asked if we knew something they could two-step to. The violin player was a great musician who could make a stab at anything so I started playing a two chord thing I'd made up to amuse my daughter with, and he started fiddling his butt off. Perfect. We had about thirty couples up two stepping. So cool to watch that. That was one of the most unexpected moments in over thirty years of doing gigs. I thought "If you live long enough, you'll see everything" I think that is the truth of the matter. quote: ORIGINAL: Kevin James Shanahan I am hoping to start a discussion on connecting . For me it is an essential element for the aspiring performing musician . I would like to hear from guitarists here that have expierienced the effect thier music has had on an environment . Personaly my gigs are generaly background music in restaurants . I thoroughly enjoy this role as I get a lot of time to learn about the effects of my music to people . I have learnt when an environment becomes noisy I need to focus on tone not volume as volume will make the room louder . I have learnt that if I play pieces with an introspective minor feel I can sense the energy of a room deplete . I have also learnt that people generaly want to relax and a simple piece played well will settle a room far greater than a piece with complexity . So for me here the the question to the foro is . What is more important satisfying your personal tastes as a guitarist wishing to be recognized as having talent . Or playing for people , giving them what you believe will bring them peace .

BarkellWH -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 0:58:21)
I am impressed by your post, Ricardo, describing how you play what, and in what type of venue, be it serious flamenco in an intimate setting or a stage performance, or Rumba in a club; and how, depending on the setting, each style of playing affects the audience and brings out reactions ranging from crying to wild dancing. It is evident that you are someone with the ability to not only perform at the highest level, but to be able to "read" your audience and be in control of your environment while having a positive effect on the audience. I have seen the result at Guarapo on several occasions. I introduced myself to you once, although you probably do not remember me. You will remember me more on the Foro as the guy with whom you disagree regarding my (admittedly antedeluvian) views on the direction so-called "modern" flamenco has taken. But we've already been through that. As someone who will never perform before a paying audience (too old, insufficient talent), I just play for my own enjoyment. I have been studying under Paco de Malaga for several years, and my wife and I have become good friends with Paco and Ana. That Paco continues to keep me as a student is a tribute not only to our friendship, but also to Paco's reservoir of patience in working with bad clay to mold a decent pot! But I recognize real talent and ability when I see it, and you embody both. There is more to performing than technical ability with the instrument. One has to read and shape the environment in which one performs. Cheers, Bill

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 4:47:15)
quote: ne of the things I've noticed is that often the more money your being paid, the less people clap. I call this "Too rich to clap" hahah exactly right...well put ...then theres the European guilt people...like Italian or Greek, the older ones that 60 years ago...(its like they feel guilty to smile or look like they enjoying themselves) they applaud , they polite but sit there looking so sad and quiet lol ... quote: well there were 40,000 in the stadium and the rest broadcasted between australia and ireland.. got the call to accompany a celtic singer for a football game oddly enough it was a very isolating performance...could'nt see any of the audience while playing wow thats cool...you like a bit of Macgyver of guitar :-))) its like you can never pick it how a crowd its gonna be...i ve had great nights at tapas bar where there were just 5 attentive people in the audiences...and not so great ones when it was full...one never knows about connecting...Its the greatest thing when it happens, you dont even need to look you know everyone is right there with you listening in absolute silence to every single note...

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 5:17:58)
Ricardo, How do you get them to hire you as a duo and how do you price yourselves? I only recently added another guitarist. Most of the guys here either just wanted to play rumba, don't read music or even charts, mostly play Gipsy Kings, or were too lazy to learn the tunes in my repertoire. Or they are so square or traditional that I don't want anyone to associate me with how they play, if that makes sense. I found someone who is an excellent guitarist and familiar with the style and I have been writing charts so he can accompany me, while also making room for him to solo over chord progressions that work within each tune. This person is very impressive and has a very strong academic knowledge and I have been learning lots of good things from him, which is great. I try to get people to hire us as duo, trio or quartet, but most people don't budget enough money for more than just me. Not sure if I should talk to them more before talking price to communicate what it is they are purchasing... I do ask what it is they want to achieve, and most often it's background music. Which I don't really care very much, I just keep the volume reasonable and play what I know. Sometimes I will choose a rumba over a bulería or something like that. Much of it is beyond people's ability to really understand, but generally they seem to like it. Once in a while they love it. Anyway, please answer how you up-sell to a duo and how you price, I am curious what I can learn from you there. -Anthony

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 5:20:14)
I also make them pay a 50% deposit. I had my site administrator set up a page where anyone can make a deposit using their credit/debit card. This way they don't cancel a few days before when I refused other work. Make them pay a deposit, and don't take no for an answer. It's the only security you have. By the same token, never ever take the money and not show or be late. Not that you would, but there's no excuse once you take a deposit. -Anthony

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 5:29:01)
quote: I try to get people to hire us as duo, trio or quartet, but most people don't budget enough money for more than just me. Not sure if I should talk to them more before talking price to communicate what it is they are purchasing... you dont give them the choice...if they think you they have the option and can get it cheaper that's when they do......if they think 2 guitars its standard...they have to accept it... make that quote that allows for 2 guitars your lowest choice...(obviously dont just double up the solo price of one guitar to 2 and charge like theres 2 solo guitars......with a second guitar...the work is a little less for both) u can go a little cheaper on the sec guitar... ...and decide between yourself how you split it.....i mean you could...but you have to decide for yourself whats most important....getting the same money...or getting that sec guitarist... make the 2 guitar deal part of every package ...if they ask why, (if you need to explain to them) tell them he provides accompanyament to you and its important for the music.. people outside ...dont think ...oh a percussionist ...or second guitarist will make it better...they just think it will cost more ....with us always just ask for 1 dancer and 1 guitarist...and i am trying to convince the girls to not give them that choice anymore ( if you give them the choice they always gonna go for cheaper...make the lowest choice one you are comfortable with )....cause they dont know...just wanna save money...but they wanna good show...its why they called you...use your experience...dont allow theirs to put together your group....they will always always take the cheapest option....and wont remember that when your act will lack energy.... give them some options...but have your minimum...like this is our group...the music is worked out to include all...everyone has a part so if u want us ...u need the minimum package

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 5:57:53)
Yeah, I'm in the same place. I'm not going to have 1 guitarist and 1 dancer be an option. It doesn't work and they won't be satisfied. Good idea.

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 6:00:45)
quote: It doesn't work and they won't be satisfied. Good idea. you will be better off for it...dont be scared of losing customers...think of all the others you will pick up when u getting the energy you know u can get with the perfect combination, how you intended it to be at EVERY gig !! cause every gig is an opportunity to impress and get more work.........and the ones that hired you love you for it...and the crowd has a great time... the ones that walk away is probably the gig u didn't wanna do anyway...u wanna please all this people but if pleasing them means always doing a show and always compromising what you think would be best and at the cost of your reputation...for what $100 - $200 ?....making them and you dissatisfied...well...no-ones winning...cause whomever is at that party is not seeing that this guy just wanted to pay for 1 guitar and one dancer...what they see is YOUR act at its best (they are assuming)...and while u can do some things...and theres special times...most time its just hard to get that proper flamenco atmosphere ...need some palmas, cajon, jaleos...cante...etc..someone to exchange energy with... Even if you cant have the full production...but still work out a minimum required to achieve a nice flamenco energy...i think at least 3 the very very minimum , 1 dancer..1 guitar, 1 singer who can also do the palmas and jaleos or ..singers are often hard to find outside spain...swap for 1 cajon.....he can do compas allowing you some freedom, some jaleo...and u have someone to feed off or if no cajon substitute for a 2nd dancer who can do plamas and jaleos etc..

Ricardo -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 13:19:03)
quote: How do you get them to hire you as a duo and how do you price yourselves? Well as I said I don't LIKE to play solo unless its a concert or intimate setting of people watching me. But I have done it. To avoid it I just say I prefer the duo and if they insist they want one guitar I just give em high price.....$400-$600 depending. And I won't play solo for more than an hour unless its two sets of 40 minutes say on concert stage and I am getting good money or part of guitar festival type thing. So sometimes I am like, Ok you have just ME for 400 for an hour, or me and my guy can be there 3 hours for 600... but I don't have locked in pricing I am willing to negotiate as long as they don't insult me and try getting more out of me. short breaks or extra sets or less money not allowed to eat or drink alcohol dress codes anybody cheaper or "that guy is cheaper" etc not really my cup of tea and I usually decline very quick those gigs and if we had agreed first then THEY change terms "oh we just noticed our budget went over...can you bla bla...." I say, ooooops just noticed I have another gig on the books I forgot same night. Sorry! RIcardo

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 16:24:29)
I do nearly the same thing. The only thing I don't do is say I have another gig. I would rather confront the issue directly. I don't let them talk me down in price because a competitor is cheaper. I say that I think what I do is worth it, and I have the reviews on WeddingWire.com to prove it. I am very clear and honest and I show them what the cost of equipment is, or my investment in this and I say "I'm sorry, but I have already spent $15,000 in equipment to do my job and I have financial responsibilities too. I charge what I charge because I know that is what I need to take care of the printing, advertising, web hosting, insurance, vehicle, etc to stay in business." Most seem to book someone else and I have no idea what experience they have. I don't really care by this point anyway. I know one guitarist here, who is actually good and a nice person, will accept 2 gigs on the same night, and do one of three things: 1) send another guitarist to the one that doesn't pay so well (even though he booked himself) and pay that other guitarist a percentage of the negotiated fee; 2) play the first gig until he has to leave for the second (and have another guitarist show up to finish the first gig; or, and at least in the past, 3) not even show for the lower paying gig (although I hear he is having problems getting bookings). If I get second requests that conflict with an already accepted gig, and even if the 2nd one pays better, I do not accept. I send the client a list of good. professional guitarists who will do a good job and wish them the best. I also say I will take less for myself if you hire more than just me. That does seem to help, but many people don't care and only want to spend whatever amount they budgeted. I have been very, very open about my pricing so that any event planner has it and can help the client realistically plan their event and budget enough for us, or cut us out. But that's only when there's an event planner. Obviously many potential clients assume that by budgeting $X, it should be enough and they make that work. I'm in a place where I feel less and less like being flexible about it, but maybe I need to calm down, because the truth is, I am very, very annoyed at what I believe to be ignorance on their part. Which is why I was saying "screw 'em".

Ricardo -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 17:39:37)
quote: The only thing I don't do is say I have another gig. I would rather confront the issue directly Well, I don't mean it as I am lying its usually true I DO have another gig, its just my normal restaurant/tablao thing which pays less but I dont' need the hassle. I used to do like you, attemp to justify my price with credentials and expenses etc, but after a moment you can quickly realize the type of person you are dealing with is that type that only wants to get the MOST for the cheapest, and it's insulting. I am not a business type person, I take ** very personal. I rather not waste my time and breath explaining ** to people that aren't interested. YOu can tell if someone is truly curious about priceing. Again the story about the woman who asked my prime time weekend fee and she gasped....'oh my!! You charge more than a doctor....I should know my husband is a doctor"....I said "oh he is cheaper than ME? He plays flamenco? YOu should have him play than." And left it at that [:D]

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 20:01:19)
'oh my!! You charge more than a doctor....I should know my husband is a doctor"....I said "oh he is cheaper than ME? He plays flamenco? YOu should have him play than." And left it at that That's funny, LOL! Awesome response:-) It's funny, but they seem to be oblivious, and actually it's understandable, to the fact that we practice into the 100,000 hour range and beyond to do what we do, but it's not visible to them so why should they know? I take it too personally too, but I give them a few reasons why my pricing is what it is and they can take it or leave it.

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 20:02:23)
I never was the business type, but I am learning, and a better person for it:-)

Florian -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 20:16:20)
quote: but many people don't care and only want to spend whatever amount they budgeted. yes but how could they know how much they needed to budget for unless they got a quote from you ? are they guessing or deciding what they would like to pay...jeez life would be wonderful if it worked like that...i wanna go to the dentist and i wanna only pay $50 [:D]

paleto3 -> RE: connecting (Jul. 31 2012 21:36:47)
Often, couples getting married here tell me they budgeted $350, my minimum is $475 and now I just raised it to $500 to pay for a $900 insurance policy I have to buy this month. This is the reason I send my pricing to tons of wedding and event coordinators, so they can inform couples what to expect.

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