new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Full Version)

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suniram -> new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 12 2012 8:08:09)

Hey,

I just read this...great news ..at least for me...
http://www.mundo-flamenco.com/en/about-us/mundo-en-route/326-konzert-paco-de-lucia-und-vicente-amigo

best regards




Elie -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 12 2012 10:36:05)

lovely news !




machopicasso -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 8:59:47)

Additional good news from the article:
quote:

Rafael de Utrera is a great singer, who is going to release his first CD soon.


Will Vicente accompany on a track? Gerardo? Others?




xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 9:10:56)

all good news!

i just hope Vicente will play more flamenco and less elevator music on his new album...(i have to give him credit though, somehow the music he played on his last album became really cool and flamenco when he played it live)




bursche -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 19:48:42)

quote:

elevator


Not the first time I read this.

Would you guys stop calling it elevator music...There are "certain things" going on on his albums but watever they are they do not make his stuff elevator music...




athrane77 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 20:33:27)

Totally agree with that bursche. I hate comments like that. If Vicente Amigo only records "elevator music" could I say that Gerardo Nunez should make a record which contains "real flamenco" and not this jazzy stuff?
You see that my opinion is only due to my bad prejudice on his music, because I have heared already about 2-3 pieces from him. I would claim that you guys haven't heard already the entire record "Paseo de Gracia" but the "famous" rumba-tangos of course. (I mean the piece "Pan Caliente" is realy annoying or could be played on a Mallorca-Party like Bursche said one time to me [:D])
If you would know the whole record, you would take that back, that Vicente Amigo does "elevator-music".
Like me because I never said that again that Gerardo Nunez does jazz after listening to Jucal.
Just listen to Paseo de Gracia attentive, if you guys don't like that, ok. Thats your personal taste, but you would stop with the elevator stuff. Thats just not right. Listen to "Girl from ipanema" THATS elevator music [;)]




Munin -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 20:48:53)

Well I'm kind of inbetween. He is a masterful composer and the central flamenco pieces on his last 3 albums are fantastic, but he's also done the sugary filler rumba/ballad (which is of course still always good for what it is) way too often now.

And I wish he'd do a pure accompaniment album again.

Edit: And from a compositional perspective I like his music a lot because it hits exactly the right spot in terms of complexity. It's strongly melodic and technically sophisticated but not so brainy and meandering that I don't even remember any melodies, which happens a lot with Diego del Morao, Antonio Rey, Canizares etc




bursche -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 20:52:39)

However if I want the real deal I go for Morao jjajaja




xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 20:55:17)

don't be so damn sensitive...
i admire and love Vicente's music, and i have indeed heard the whole album and it was a disappointment for me...sure it's not elevator music, it's elevator music compared to his previous work...not the whole album, surely...case closed
i just hope his new album will be more inspiring, for my taste at least...




Sr. Martins -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 21:04:00)

To me the first album is way better than all the others and "3 notas" might be one of his better known songs but I only dig the begining and the chorus.. the "verse" parts of that song (and others in the same style) seem like going nowhere... oh, and his wiggy wiggy left hand maneirisms are getting REALLY boring for me.




bursche -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 22:44:18)

quote:

was a disappointment for me

quote:

REALLY boring


Open up for modern flamenco. Whenever you get into the middle of some young flamencos trying new harmonies you will feel so surrounded by "watered down and elevator like" music and boygroup-singing that you'll probably quit flamenco. But these new tendencies are by no means making flamenco a simpler kind of music than before. It is neither an appeasement to pop music. It's how most of this music is going to be within just a few years.




Sr. Martins -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 23:04:45)

quote:

It's how most of this music is going to be within just a few years.


It already is like "that", thats why we hear it so much. Most of the solo guitar albuns sound like copies of themselves, musically and production wise.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with tendencies. At least they are giving you the option to follow something blindly or do your own thing.




XXX -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 23:08:26)

I love Vicente's playing. When he plays flamenco.




bursche -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 13 2012 23:20:38)

It's like saying "I love Camarón, but La Leyenda is ****in' pop music"




Ricardo -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 14 2012 15:58:07)

I am not Vicente's BIGGEST fan, but some of his work is amazing. Best of for me I would take some choice cuts from the first album and 3rd album and Poeta, some choice cuts from his 3 albums with El pele and Remedios Amaya, and the complete album Vivencias Imaginadas and the entire albm with Jose Merce.

Ricardo




Sr. Martins -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 14 2012 18:20:01)

From what I remember theres a song on Jose Merce's album that features that clear resolving to Dm that we've been talking about in another thread. "Primavera" is the name of the song I think, really cool [8D]




Bulerias2005 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 15 2012 4:19:09)

I can't say I'm a huge fan of Vicente's stuff. I love Un Momento en el Sonido, though, and a few of his earlier pieces. Brilliant stuff on that record. All in all, though, I think his playing is too light, but that's just me.

Edit - Ciudad de las Ideas has got to be my least favorite of his albums, strictly from a flamenco perspective. It's nice music, but it's very pop-infused. I don't even count Paseo de Gracia as a Vicente Amigo album because it's pop shlock he was forced to record by record companies.

Edit 2 - The guajira on Poeta is beautiful.




KMMI77 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 15 2012 5:39:43)

I'm a big fan! Vicente is my favorite composer of guitar music. He's always tasteful imo and knows when not to overdo it, both within his playing and compositions. His music is smooth and elegant like no one before him.

If he keeps playing and recording, I think he will breakthrough stylistically into another direction soon. And i'm looking forward to that.




paleto3 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 15 2012 6:41:21)

It is the good listener that makes the good recording:-) I think Emerson said that about reading.

Whether flamenco or not, what he plays is great, with few exceptions in my view:-)

I am thankful he has shared his creativity with us, in just about everything he has recorded.

-A




Florian -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 15 2012 7:45:24)

quote:

and knows when not to overdo it, both within his playing and compositions.



this is true in particular songs I think so but I have not found the same when it comes to general sound, and aire he gives out as a guitarist... ...i was kind of turned off paying proper attention to the last one, i just cant get into it, cause it dosent feel like a new album...its like an extension of the one before...in fact i feel like his whole music even different palos what should be different sentiments are at times is just part of the same one long music track that just changes palos but has the same musical ideas and sentiments..very weird...i dont know if it is the case...but its just how i think of it in general without thinking specifics or braking it down...just my first reaction

enough with everything being so heavy and gloomy and so complicated already [&:] if i had to describe the sentiments his music overall leaves me with in one word gloomy is the first the comes to mind..

like the guy that makes something deep for no reason of even the lightest what should be just playful things...when the mood should just be light, cheeky and move on...but no he needs to be the drama queen, and take it all to that serious place you might not always necessarily wanna go or the occasion might not necessarily call for (like doing a wedding toast for you and talking about kids starving in Africa...just doesn't know when to turn the heavy off)...


so i might not necessarily be thinking elevator music, theres certainly things from him i love but i think...kind on a loop and stuck around exploring the same vicente musical ideas hes always had...kind of lost its element of surprise...the pullons and pulloffs, the delayed, heavy dark playing etc.....personally i think at some point started out as the most brilliant and original and freshest musician....and then he kind of stayed where he was safe that people liked him..instead of taking risks and taking them to different places


I think its important to know when you did it, when you were fresh...and when to move on so that you dont become your "style" prove that your originality is just that..."originality"...not an accident or a result of an expression limitation...like a lisp that sounds cute, original and different at first but then annoys you later on when you just need to understand wtf shes saying

(kind of like actors being typecast...imagine the guy that played Kramer in Seinfeld doing anything else now and expecting you to not see Kramer or believe him)....this days i am tending to think your "style" should not be that noticeable...its a limitation if you dont know how to turn it on and off...and some will not agree with this but i think Digeo del Morao is circulating exactly the same risks, because hes so original and his style stands out so much now... he should know when he was the freshest thing, different, original, great...but not allow the style to be him...but the music...not allow himself to be typecast


some like to think of it that "special" someone touch, that "style" i think of it as looping around the same ideas, not growing artistically and becoming predictable and communication limited...



but this is just my 2 cents...it dosent necessarily make it so...different things grab us differently...its probably the most outspoken post i ever made here...but pretend you asked me how i feel about an album I just got and i am speaking frankly to you over a beer...and i got nothing else to talk about so i am milking this conversation for all its got :-) thinking way too deep lol (such a vicente thing to do heh)


in saying all this i would love to come back here in a few months and say, " man i was so wrong"...this new album...makes me feel different




Adam -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 15 2012 17:45:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bulerias2005
I don't even count Paseo de Gracia as a Vicente Amigo album because it's pop shlock he was forced to record by record companies.


Well that's a little unfair. Does the second track with Enrique Morente not even get any credit?

quote:

Edit 2 - The guajira on Poeta is beautiful.


Hells^yes.




machopicasso -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 17 2012 8:24:31)

quote:

I don't even count Paseo de Gracia as a Vicente Amigo album because it's pop shlock he was forced to record by record companies.


Can you elaborate on how he was "forced to record" that album?




Bulerias2005 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 17 2012 23:06:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

I don't even count Paseo de Gracia as a Vicente Amigo album because it's pop shlock he was forced to record by record companies.


Can you elaborate on how he was "forced to record" that album?


"Well, the record company was bugging me for a long time to do a record with guest artists, with people I’ve been surrounded by over the years, and here it is."

http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/paginai.jsp?codigo=2416

Doesn't sound like he was terribly enthusiastic about the project.




Munin -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 17 2012 23:50:12)

I don't see how that qualifies it as "pop shlock", sorry...there's more pop stuff on there than usual but then you have that buleria with Morente which is one of the best things he has recorded since his first two albums...




BarkellWH -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 0:04:45)

quote:

Open up for modern flamenco. Whenever you get into the middle of some young flamencos trying new harmonies you will feel so surrounded by "watered down and elevator like" music and boygroup-singing that you'll probably quit flamenco. But these new tendencies are by no means making flamenco a simpler kind of music than before. It is neither an appeasement to pop music. It's how most of this music is going to be within just a few years.


Which is why some of us (admittedly, not many on the Foro) prefer Paco Pena among contemporary flamenco guitarists, and overall consider Sabicas the template for great flamenco. While "modern flamenco" may not be "an appeasement to pop music," I think much of it owes more of a debt to "pop" than some would like to admit.

Just one aficionado's opinion.

Cheers,

Bill




Bulerias2005 -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 0:48:52)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Munin

I don't see how that qualifies it as "pop shlock", sorry...there's more pop stuff on there than usual but then you have that buleria with Morente which is one of the best things he has recorded since his first two albums...

Just my opinion. But I absolutely love Vicente's more serious work and hope he returns to that with the new album. I didn't even realize that the piece with Morente was a bulerias, by the way. Sounds much more like a solea por bulerias to me.




machopicasso -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 6:39:23)

quote:

"Well, the record company was bugging me for a long time to do a record with guest artists, with people I’ve been surrounded by over the years, and here it is."

http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/paginai.jsp?codigo=2416

Doesn't sound like he was terribly enthusiastic about the project.


No, that one comment doesn't sound "terribly enthusiastic." But, if you read further through the interview, he sounds a lot more positive about the album.

quote:

So you sort of got rooked into making this record?
No no, what I mean to say is the record company had the idea from years before to make a record of collaborations, and lots of guest artists. The thing is, I just didn’t set my mind to it, I didn’t have enough material for everything, and I didn’t really feel like doing it, because then it’s hard to do the live show…but now I got it all together and it happened, it’s only logical. I don’t think it subtracts personality from the record, it’s an interesting piece of work.

I can sense that in the recordings you made with José Mercé, Remedios Amaya, Pele…
But it’s very much my own record, you know? It’s like a way of singing with guitar, of accompanying the verses with my melodies. There’s lots of cante, but I’m with them every step of the way, I like to do with the guitar, what everyone else does with voice. It’s also a brave recording because it approaches pop, but always with respect and knowing that I’m first and foremost a flamenco, backing up the harmony and voices in my own way.


I find these remarks interesting because, personally, I was a bit disappointed with this album. He's one of my favorite guitarists, and I think he's capable of doing a lot better. But maybe I should go back and give it another listen. Thanks for posting a link to the interview.




xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 9:53:04)

you mustn't forget that despite it's poppyness, he made this album a fantastic pure flamenco experience live on stage...




Ricardo -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 15:58:53)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

quote:

Open up for modern flamenco. Whenever you get into the middle of some young flamencos trying new harmonies you will feel so surrounded by "watered down and elevator like" music and boygroup-singing that you'll probably quit flamenco. But these new tendencies are by no means making flamenco a simpler kind of music than before. It is neither an appeasement to pop music. It's how most of this music is going to be within just a few years.


Which is why some of us (admittedly, not many on the Foro) prefer Paco Pena among contemporary flamenco guitarists, and overall consider Sabicas the template for great flamenco. While "modern flamenco" may not be "an appeasement to pop music," I think much of it owes more of a debt to "pop" than some would like to admit.

Just one aficionado's opinion.

Cheers,

Bill

On the contrary, the vast majority of casual listeners feel the same, especially english speaking and in internet land. Europeans tend to have more openess to modern flamenco and understand how it evolved to its present form. Americans in particular are stuck on sabicas and carlos montoya...and Paco's early music career. The problem stems from people getting stuck on what first grabbed them about flamenco. Obviously the music of Vicente is different than Sabicas. I was lucky at an early stage of collecting recordings to have a discografy of PDL and was able to follow the historical evolution as I collected recordings. For sure I did not understand at first relationship between the first Paco album I bought (Zyrab) to Fabulosa or Paco Peña. But over a quick time of filling in gaps it made sense to me what happened with this music over the years. That's just me as a more than casual listener/student. Not everyone is required to do that much work to simply enjoy flamenco, but its easier now a days if someone can help point people in the right direction (like Norman's site for example). But lumping modern flamenco in with jazz/pop etc is saddly all to common IMO.

Ricardo




BarkellWH -> RE: new vicente amigo album by october ?! (Jul. 18 2012 22:03:03)

quote:

Europeans tend to have more openess to modern flamenco and understand how it evolved to its present form. Americans in particular are stuck on sabicas and carlos montoya.


It is not so much a matter of "openness" or understanding how it evolved to its present form. One can be open to new developments in music, art, and literature, and one can very clearly put forth the effort to understand how developments in each of these endeavors evolved, without liking the latest iteration of the genre. For example, long ago Paco de Lucia teamed up with Chick Corea. Now, I like Chick Corea's music, and I like Paco de Lucia's playing. Nevertheless, while I found the Chick Corea-Paco de Lucia collaboration interesting and liked it for what it was, I was less than thrilled by it as flamenco.

Another example is literature. One of my very favorite writers is (was--he is now deceased) Italo Calvino. He was extremely experimental (both in style and content) and carried literature beyond boundaries (much as some describe PDL and flamenco today). I devoured Italo Calvino and consider him great. I think "If on a Winter's Night a Traveler" is a masterpiece. Yet many critics who understood what he was up to did not like it at all. There are those who do not understand how some music and literature evolve, and there are those who do understand. But to be open and to understand how new forms evolve does not necessarily equate to liking the result.

While I agree with Bursche (to an extent) when he stated that "modern flamenco" is "not an appeasement to pop," I do think that "pop" (broadly defined) has had more of an influence on it than many would care to admit. As for most Americans' being stuck on Sabicas and Carlos Montoya, I would agree with you, although I think far more Americans would name Carlos Montoya, since he went all over the country performing in concerts, whereas Sabicas did not. One reason Sabicas did not perform extensively was his fear of flying. Nevertheless, there is no comparison between Sabicas and Carlos Montoya when it comes to superb flamenco.

Cheers,

Bill




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