Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Full Version)

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srshea -> Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 3:31:12)

Haven't seen this discussed before, and maybe it's just not worth discussing [:D] but why is it that there aren't really any major figures on the guitar from Cadiz? Plenty of big names from Jerez, Sevilla, Lebrija, Grenada, etc., but while there are plenty of major singers from Cadiz there aren't really any guitar players of note (that I know of. I'm talking about top level guys, figuras or minor-major figures.) If you go way back there's Patino, El Barbero, the old Habichuela, but I'm just thinking of the modern recorded era here. And I'm justing thinking of Cadiz proper, not the general los puertos area, which would bring in Manolo Sanlucar and such.

Most of the great gaditano singers are accompanied by jerezanos, Le Perla with Morao, Rancapino and Donday with Cepero, Villar with Nino Jero. Chano Lobato seemed to have been accompanied by a mixed bag of dudes from other locales, Paco el Gastor, Pedro Bacan. Selles and (I think?) Chaqueta recorded with Montoya. And so on.

So, maybe there's something really obvious staring me in the face, but I can't really think of any truly important gaditano tocaores in the modern era. Any thoughts on why this is? Does all that salt air rust your frets out? Or is this just the way it is because that's the way it is?

And in the absence of any homegrown talent, who do y'all like for interpreting Cadiz stuff, who's the most sensitive to properly supporting a gaditano singer, instead of just doing what they might do for someone from their own pueblo?



NormanKliman -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 8:23:20)

Definitely a shortage of modern players from Cádiz. Nowadays, Niño de La Leo seems to get most of the gigs (he accompanies Rancapino in the Puro y Jondo video). There are others, but I don't know anything about them aside from their names, one being Juani de la Isla. Sean can probably shed some light on this.

About Chano, don't forget that his son Chanito accompanied him for a while. This might be the case of other singers, as flamenco runs deep in the tightly-knit families in this part of Spain. In other words, why get a professional if your kid knows your cantes better than anyone and will do it for free? Just a theory.

In the past, there was a disciple of Patiño called Capinetti (first decades of 20th century, I think). Félix de Utrera learned from him. Somebody wrote that his right hand wasn't very good, but his left hand made up for it (which probably just means that the writer saw him play some falsetas with lots of ligados).

There was another guitarist named Eloy Blanco. I'm pretty sure he was the inspiration for the character Efrén Gris in Gerald Howsen's "The Flamencos of Cádiz Bay." Eloy plays for La Sabina (Santiago Donday's mother) and someone else in some of the Rito y Geografía videos. There's very little footage for an evaluation, but he seemed to be a bit brutish, although, if I remember correctly, there's a fandango por soleá that starts to come together nicely after a minute or so.

quote:

Selles and (I think?) Chaqueta recorded with Montoya.


Chaqueta was from La Línea (near Algeciras) and recorded with Antonio Arenas and Paco Aguilera, probably in Madrid (long after Montoya's death). As you probably know, Montoya accompanied Aurelio on his 1929 recordings, Morao and Melchor accompanied him on Mairena's anthology and Andrés Heredia (Madrid) is on his 1962 recordings. There are a couple of bits of Aurelio singing in Edgar Neville's film, but I don't know who the guitarist was, and Morao accompanies him in that excellent video with Farruco, Chocolate and others.



Morante -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 15:25:57)

Never heard of Román Vicenti? (director of music for Farruquito). His little brother Raúl is great as well. The best of the new generation is Keko Baldomero, who has an amazing variety of rasgeos, Juan Ramón Ortega, who is the most flamenco player, also Oscar Lago, Joselito de Pura, Rampli, Juani de la Isla (guitarrista de El Barrio) Jaime de la Isla, Victor Rosa, Adriano Lozano.

Niño de la Leo is, at the same time, the worst professional guitarist and the best mafioso de Cádiz[:o]

Most of the flamencos gaditanos live in Sevilla or Madrid: in Cádiz there is little work, which pays badly and so is second rate and is controlled by Niño de la Leo.



Ricardo -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 15:35:25)

Not sure why it has to be the specific city. The importance is more about region IMO. In that sense Paco de Lucia and family are gaditano, hence the life long focus of cadiz styles Alegria, Cantiña, Tango, Tanguillo, etc. Paco always excelled at those forms both accomp and compositions for guitar. Jerezanos are the focus of flamenco IMO, but not all from just barrio santiago. Then you used to have a big distinction sevilla vs triana but they are so close geographically. Sanlucar de Barrameda is an interesting mix to me of equal parts Cadiz and Jerez, both singing and playing. Esteban de sanlucar and brother, and Manolo Sanlucar and family great examples. Solid tight compas with a bit of jerez swing, but with that up beat happiness of cadiz. I don't think its a big deal to equate Paco with Cadiz. Another young player from Alegciras is Jose Manuel Leon, also good Alegrias stuff.



srshea -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:07:19)

Thanks, dudes. Lots of good stuff to look into.

I don’t think I knew about Chanito, and, Sean, all of those names, aside from that of your nemesis, are new to me, so I’ll look into those guys.

quote:

Not sure why it has to be the specific city.

I was just thinking specifically of Cadiz city because with all the huge figures in cante there, Selles, La Perla, etc., there aren’t any corresponding, contemporaneous guitar players of that same stature, while there IS plenty of guitar/voice parity in other places. But I appreciate your point about approaching things with a broader regional perspective and I agree. Lately I’ve been interested in and starting to figure out ways in which places I once thought of as distinct are actually deeply connected. I used to think of Lebrija as more of a Sevillan locale, but now I’m starting to understand how it fits more as a bridge between Jerez and Sevilla, and so on.



Morante -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:19:29)

Thinking of cities seems reasonable to me; after all Jerez is Cádiz province but its flamenco is very different.



Ramon Amira -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:23:11)

quote:

There was another guitarist named Eloy Blanco. I'm pretty sure he was the inspiration for the character Efrén Gris in Gerald Howsen's "The Flamencos of Cádiz Bay."


Norman -

I'm curious - Gerald Howsen seems to have used real names for other figures who appear in the book. Why would he have chosen a pseudonym for Aurelio's guitarist?

Ramon



El Kiko -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:36:58)

quote:

but why is it that there aren't really any major figures on the guitar from Cadiz?

like Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gómez born in Algeciras, Cádiz..........sometimes known as PDL ..........



Ricardo -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:41:00)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Kiko

quote:

but why is it that there aren't really any major figures on the guitar from Cadiz?

like Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gómez born in Algeciras, Cádiz..........sometimes known as PDL ..........



Doesnt count...looking for Cadiz, Cadiz. [;)]



srshea -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 18:46:43)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Kiko

quote:

but why is it that there aren't really any major figures on the guitar from Cadiz?

like Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gómez born in Algeciras, Cádiz..........sometimes known as PDL ..........



Doesnt count...looking for Cadiz, Cadiz. [;)]


[8|] Guys, we all know Paco and Camaron are both from another planet, so they don't figure into this discussion. [8D]



El Kiko -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 19:53:34)

quote:

Doesnt count...looking for Cadiz, Cadiz.

Any particular street .......?//

JOSE MANUEL LEON modern style ........
I think .....



srshea -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 22:18:14)

quote:

Morao accompanies him in that excellent video with Farruco, Chocolate and others.


Woah, that's new to me. Little bit of a rough start, but he rips into that last cante! That sip of sherry must have done the trick.




srshea -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 22:29:33)

Here's the whole thing. Holy smokes, where has this been all my life??? (Edit. It's been posted at least twice in the past. Duh. [&:])




NormanKliman -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 6 2012 23:52:09)

Hi Ramon,

I don't really know that, but Eloy was Aurelio's main guitarist for a while and I've never heard of Efrén Gris outside of Howsen's novel. It just sounds like a fake name. If he did change the identity, maybe it's because of his unflattering portrayal of the character.



estebanana -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 7 2012 1:59:55)

quote:

Efrén Gris outside of Howsen's novel. It just sounds like a fake name. If he did change the identity, maybe it's because of his unflattering portrayal of the character.


I was thinking the same thing. Also Efren sound like 'a fren' as in a way a Spaniard would pronounce 'a friend' with a heavy accent by dropping the d. " He's a fren. "

When Howson first published in 1965 'Efren' was very much alive. Maybe Howson did not want a bunch of dudes going down to pester him. Or he did not want anyone to know he studied with him. Who knows interesting mystery.

Efren kept telling Howson that stupid Enrique joke so maybe that pissed Howson off. [:D]



NormanKliman -> RE: Gaditano Tocaores, Where Are They?? (Jul. 7 2012 6:25:01)

I thought for a while that he just made up the name "Efrén" (maybe based on "RENFE") until one day I thought of the actor Efrem Zimbalist Jr. So, although Efrén is a real name, it seems unlikely to me, especially coupled with that last name and for a gaditano.



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