I don't play Flamenco (Full Version)

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clevblue -> I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 0:01:52)

But I've joined because I intend to. I've played guitar for years, folk and blues etc., and now I am retired with time on my hands. I've always loved Flamenco music but been afraid to try, now there's so much tuition on the web I can't fail. Or can I?

Anyway reading your forums over the last few days you seem a friendly bunch so I thought I'd introduce myself. Don't laugh, I don't even have a flamenco guitar yet, so I've converted an old 12-string acoustic I had lying around and am on with it. It sounds good actually with nylon strings, I'm impressing myself already.



RTC -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 0:28:41)

Glad you are here, I am sure you will get plenty of advice and help. Just ask and someone here can assist you. Enjoy your Flamenco Journey!



Florian -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 5:53:42)

hello clevblue :-) welcome



Elie -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 6:27:59)

welcome man :)



machopicasso -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 8:35:37)

If you're just starting out (and even if you're not), there are lots of great lessons on this site:
http://www.flamenco-teacher.com/lss;jsessionid=C065E6FC6873E16CF2899E276C78EDAD



clevblue -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 10:01:02)

Thanks everyone, it's best to get recommendations from those in the know.



Doitsujin -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 12:48:45)

quote:

I can't fail. Or can I?


99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.



Morante -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 13:20:03)

Nobody fails. It all depends on where you want to be and whether you are happy with what you achieve.



Don Dionisio -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 14:19:03)

Where are you on that spectrum? Also,
When was the last time you posted something positive on the
foro?



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 14:21:45)

Doitsujin has his rare sentimental moments as well :D



kudo -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 15:02:23)

quote:

99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.

[:D][:D] im laughing because it has a lot of truth in it, yet at the same time 99.9% seems high enough to scare someone from the very beginning. I would NOT put a number on it, but would say that MOST of those who attempt tend to fail !

personally, I was about to seriously give up on flamenco during my first year with flamenco, where I had not played any other guitar music before that point. I went straight into guitar, straight into flamenco.
I dont know if its easier or harder to learn flamenco for you if you played other kinds of music on other kinds of guitar.

at the end, I have come to believe that a true flamenco DID NOT choose to be a flamenco for oneself. its more like the person was CHOSEN to be a flamenco, but by who?? the only explanation I have is by the duende ! the duende chooses people to be true flamenco, and its not the persons choice.

if you know that you were not chosen, no problem, you can still learn and play flamenco, but a true flamenco will always be on another scale. I dont know how to describe it. it can all be felt !



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 15:21:59)

oh no you said the d word!

but the conclusion has some truth to it...no matter how much one sucks, they'll still have the drive to continue playing (or rather trying to play) flamenco...it's a road full of obstacles and conquering each of them one takes extreme pleasure in...and there's always the next mountain to climb...



ToddK -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 15:25:32)

quote:

99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.


You're so right D. Why bother with anything? Right? I mean everything
and everybody sucks, so there's no point to anything in life.
Maybe suicide is a good option.



n85ae -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 15:33:11)

Some people on the forum are just *******s at times, ToddK says well
what I'm thinking.

Never mind the other threads, *******s in abundance on the foro these
days.

Must be the heat.



Ron.M -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 15:54:31)

quote:

fail at flamenco


But at what point do you pass, below which you fail?[:-]

There are no Flamenco exams as far as I know.

Has Paco Peña passed? Melchor de Marchena?

Do you put the certificate on your wall?

I think "maybe" what Doit was meaning is that a lot of people give up when they realize how difficult being at ease with compás is etc etc..that they kinda give up after a couple of years, by morphing into "flamingo" and putting up YouTube vids of their own "fusion compositions". [8|]

cheers,

Ron



Ricardo -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:12:56)

There is no failure really, it's constant learning and growth, or at least it SHOULD be that way. What happens is most of us get stuck in a rut at some point, and learning slows down or seems to stop. But it doesn't really, its a choice to keep working or not when those moments occur. Along the way there will be MANY successes...for example:

1 Being able to identify and distinguish one palo from an other....a big step.

2 Being able to play SOMETHING in compas...a huge leap of success and harder than it sounds so lots of pride and inspiration should come from that.

3 Playing a "piece" of sorts as a solo....just one 3-5 minute mix of falsetas and compas strumming counts as a huge achievment.

4 Accompanying a dance class without messing up the class.

5 Accompanying a singer in formal in juerga

6 Performing in public.

7 Getting paid to perform either solo, or accomp dance or singer

8 Getting asked to play for high level artist

9 Performing in front of or for a maestro or maestra

10 Recieving award for ones own playing

list goes on and on.... but folks often get stuck at number 3 and don't move forward. It's ok but I think that's what doit is getting at by "fail".

Ricardo



Don Dionisio -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:23:08)

Thanks for that, Ricardo-very inspirational and realistic too.



xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:30:10)

damn i have nowhere left to go, do i retire or something? :D



FullMetalGuitarist -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:30:28)

quote:

I went straight into guitar, straight into flamenco.

Very interesting Kudo , I did the same thing.

Don't know about duende , but I do remember that as I started playing guitar for the first time in my life (which was about 5 years ago) the first snow of the year began to fall :)



Ricardo -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:36:09)

quote:

ORIGINAL: xirdneH_imiJ

damn i have nowhere left to go, do i retire or something? :D

well, now you make a website and advertise yourself on youtube....come on man get with it!!!!



Doitsujin -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:39:45)

lol Why are you all so negative? I just pointed out how difficult flamenco is.
Look around in the foro here are rarely people who can play good. Flamenco is difficult.

Because I´m a very nice person and I have a positive moment right now I will answer some of the questions. :>

quote:

Where are you on that spectrum? Also,
When was the last time you posted something positive on the
foro?


I'm amateur player, it doesn't matter where I am. But you ask..so I see myself way lower than average here. That means way above Todd whose playing is basically all made up with studio gadgets.
To your second question: Date Jun. 26 2012 21:53:37

quote:

You're so right D. Why bother with anything? Right? I mean everything
and everybody sucks, so there's no point to anything in life.
Maybe suicide is a good option.


No you misunderstood. My answer was very simple. Nothing to interpret. I only talked about how difficult flamenco is. And thats fyi the exact answer to the initial question of this thread.

Here the question again: " I've always loved Flamenco music but been afraid to try, now there's so much tuition on the web I can't fail. Or can I?"

So I dont see the point why you are all whining like little girls about the only true answer.

And suicide is not an option Todd. We have some problems right now..but you should not think about that.


quote:

Some people on the forum are just *******s at times, ToddK says well
what I'm thinking.

Never mind the other threads, *******s in abundance on the foro these
days.

Must be the heat.


I see nobody writing bad things here except you. Here for you: ♥ I hope you feel better now. :)

quote:

But at what point do you pass, below which you fail?

There are no Flamenco exams as far as I know.

Has Paco Peña passed? Melchor de Marchena?

Do you put the certificate on your wall?


Ron you are the only one whose comment actually makes sense EDIT: till I posted this. Ricardo came right after I posted. So I wont talk about this hereEDIT. You can´t fail if there is no test. Thats true. So,.. the initial question is answered: You can´t fail.

So I rephrase my answer: 99.9% of the people who try, won´t get satisfying results at flamenco-guitar. That means you will probably give up before reaching a level at which you could let it sound smooth and enjoyable.

BAM, et voila. Close the threaT. there is no more to say. ;P haha



rogeliocan -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:47:23)

quote:

99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.


Thanks for making me laugh



Doitsujin -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:47:54)

quote:

But it doesn't really, its a choice to keep working or not when those moments occur. Along the way there will be MANY successes...for example:


Yeah thats a very diplomatic way of describing success in flamenco Ricardo. Everybody has his own points I guess. I would say yes, point 1, 2 and 3 are fair. The rest is option. I mean..I dont really care about point 4 to 10 for different reasons.



Ricardo -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:52:57)

quote:

So I rephrase my answer: 99.9% of the people who try, won´t get satisfying results at flamenco-guitar.


As we get better and better, we tend to look back and be LESS satisfied with were we are at NOW. Even PDL is unsatisfied and strives to do better. Florian just brought this point up recently how less impressed he is with himself the better he gets. YOur 99% is super high, and it shows your not satisfied with your own playing...also calling one's self "amature" is an excuse for pretending to be satisfied with ones own level of suck and mediocrity. Your actually not that bad Doit. [:D] I think the level of those satisfied where they are at with flamenco is much higher than 1%, but actually because they are LOWER level...only the high level players get more and more dis satisfied, even when they get accolades and awards. Its because they know where they stand in bigger picture. It's normal. Truth is the is a smaller percentage of higher level players, and again it's normal.

To me, if you can play in compas consistently, your are at "pro level" even if you want to call yourself amature because you don't get paid. If you can't play in compas, or tend to lose it more often than not, I consider you a beginner. that's just me but it's pretty simple to see which category people fall into that way.

Ricardo



edguerin -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:56:40)

quote:

99.9% of the people who try, fail at flamenco. That means you will probably fail.

That's sort of the inverse of 80% of German drivers believe they're better than average drivers [:D]



Doitsujin -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:57:16)

True Ricardo. And you are a good observer. I´m not satisfied with my playing at all.



Sr. Martins -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 16:59:06)

I would go even further by saying that only the first three points are meaningful to me.

But I wont say it coz nobody asked [8D]



Kalo -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 17:01:50)

quote:

Look around in the foro here are rarely people who can play good. Flamenco is difficult.


Seriously, I think there are people on this forum who play really good.

I think you will find that there are players who range from beginner, intermediate to advance to AWESOME
[:D]

The main thing is not all of us can be Paco De Lucia, Tomatito, etc.

If you love flamenco guitar, I would invest in a student flamenco guitar and LEARN!!!!

I also respect Ricardo's post as he has described the journey quite nicely!!!

Kalo



Ron.M -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 17:04:23)

I think a lot of people who start Flamenco guitar do so from what their impression of Flamenco guitar is. ie Rolling rasgueados, lightning picado and lots of knocking and slapping the guitar. (lol)

So they decide to take lessons and think "Wait a minute....I'm not interested in all this compás crap and these drunk guys shouting out of tune and stuff...how do you play that fast sh1t with the fingers?

That's been my experience anyway.

The ones who get drawn into the whole Art form are very few compared to the ones who just want to play "Flamenco" like Jose Feliciano. (No offence to Jose...I like his songs a lot.)

cheers,

Ron



n85ae -> RE: I don't play Flamenco (Jul. 5 2012 17:04:30)

Hmm ... Actually you are right, guess just the way you said it. Today is
supposed to be hottest day in Chicago recorded history, and I live here,
so you can understand my grumpiness :)

True, 99.9% of us will suck at it forever, but keep on trying. :)

Jeff

quote:

lol Why are you all so negative? I just pointed out how difficult flamenco is.
Look around in the foro here are rarely people who can play good. Flamenco is difficult.



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