Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Full Version)

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Alonte -> Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 17:20:44)

I really want to expand my knowledge on Jazz Guitar Theory and Harmony. Think Josemi Carmona, Paquete and Chaboli...

Are there methods and books that you guys use? Something that explains really well the ideas behind comping and chord substitutions and creating interesting harmonies from melodic lines?



Ricardo -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 17:55:55)

More on improvising over progressions...you have to have some reading skill and moderate rhythmic skill, but I highly recommend John Mclaughlins DVD course....expensive but extensive and will carry you through years of dedicated work. 12 part cousre starting from basic modal soloing, blues, increase complexity through melodic minor modes and odd time signatures.

For comping chords you need to get with a teacher or start playing with a group and learn in real time with real book on the stand.



Munin -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 18:08:31)

Truefire.com specializes in jazz and they have a lot of insightful lessons on jazz harmony, comping etc. I believe you can sign up free for 30 days and watch any lessons they offer in that period.

Just don't expect any fancy video/audio, this is completely reduced to content and insight, but I personally think there's nothing better out there as far as such complex topics go (short of doing what Ricardo suggests), even though I am still a beginner myself.



Alonte -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 18:38:28)

I really am curious about how the guitarists I mentioned harmonize. Even on the more pop and jazz oriented pastori songs, that chord changes can be so hard to cifra. I can read music pretty well and have knowledge on theory, but cant really figure out the chord changes sometimes. I am sure there is a philosophy and pattern behind these.

This for example, where I am quite sure is mostly improvisation and jam based of an idea.



Ill check out those resources Ricardo and Munin. What about books?



Sr. Martins -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 21:23:29)

You have to train your ear and overall perception to distinguish between chord changes and chord voicings.

Sometimes your hear someone comping with 300 hundred chord shapes but in fact the whole song is just ii V I :p

Play lots of jazz chords and try many voicing for each one, that will open up your ears. (I have to do that myself but at the same time I would rather not know anything about jazz and be able to aprecciate it as if Iam not a musician)



Ricardo -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 22:21:17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alonte

I really am curious about how the guitarists I mentioned harmonize. Even on the more pop and jazz oriented pastori songs, that chord changes can be so hard to cifra. I can read music pretty well and have knowledge on theory, but cant really figure out the chord changes sometimes. I am sure there is a philosophy and pattern behind these.

This for example, where I am quite sure is mostly improvisation and jam based of an idea.



Ill check out those resources Ricardo and Munin. What about books?



Sorry man...typical confusion. Scratch what I first wrote thought you are into real jazz concepts. This is just modern flamenco. ONly a single chord I saw using typical jazz guitar voicing....all the rest comes direct from flamenco technique discipline. first gets some traditional basic voicings of flamenco down. Later explore modern keys used in flamenco such as key of D# phyrgian. What these guys doing is pretty standard. The "jazziness" of this is more in the delivery than the actual techniques and music. Not improvised jamming in jazz way this is all worked out falsetas with basic chordal accompaniment.

Start with traditional flamenco is all I can say. forget jazz discipline it ain't anywhere close to this and most jazz guys would be kind of confused whats going on here and would have to do the same as you first getting handle on traditional flamenco chord grips to recreate this performance.

Unique thing here is the 7/4 meter (4+3) so it's not a flamenco form...but in terms of the harmonizations its totally from flamenco NOT jazz.



Alonte -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 22:44:49)

Thanks again Ricardo. But where does one find material to explore those Modern Flamenco chords? I know pretty much most of the standard chords and could accompany the usual palos with the usual progression but I would really like to learn this way of playing chords.



Ricardo -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 22:57:52)

quote:

But where does one find material to explore those Modern Flamenco chords


Within the traditional AND modern repertoire. For example just look at transcription of any palo in key of D# phrygian and you find many of the same voicings. Vicente, Tomatito, Nuñez, etc for a start.



Alonte -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 23:11:35)

Thats right! I guess its time to check the transcriptions. I never thought of that since in terms of flamenco, I learned from people showing me chord shapes and fingerings and trying to ask friends to show me some stuff and the occassional looking at youtube for fingering chord shapes.



Sr. Martins -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 23:28:14)

I thought too that you were trying to play jazz but what I said about chord changes remains the same in a flamenco environment.

First you get some basic flamenco chords under your fingers, then you expand on that by adding different voicings and substitutions to your vocabulary.

Also try to explore some falsetas that are made up of bits of the chord (broken chords) and little melodies, this way you'll understand the chord/scale relationship and also develop your ear for the possibilities within this kind of chords.



Alonte -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 18 2012 23:31:22)

Thanks Rui. Actually jazz might be a good thing to learn to right? to build a richer musical vocabulary.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 19 2012 1:47:36)

quote:

Actually jazz might be a good thing to learn to right? to build a richer musical vocabulary.


It's definitely worth knowing, but many Flamenco chord voicings are more dissonant and not part of the Jazz repertoire.



Guest -> RE: Jazz Guitar Progression materials for the flamenco guitarist (Jun. 19 2012 2:21:06)

Another rich source for 'jazz' type harmony is in the Brazilian repetoire
Jobim, traditional Choro and samba.. etc....
great guitar material and voiceleading....
also the music of jazz pianist Bill Evans...

highly recomend Mick Goodrick's [Pat Metheny's teacher] book 'the Advancing Guitarist' http://advancingmusician.com/advancing-guitarist-mick-goodrick/
noticed a few downloads avail on google listing
applicable to ANY style...not genre specific..
a life time of wealth and materials in that book...a kind of 'do it yourself' approach...
quote:

Flamenco chord voicings are more dissonant and not part of the Jazz repertoire.

yet you hear so much of it from modern jazz pianists but less so from jazz guitarists.......


search you tube as well...but this guy harmonizes the phrygian mode in quartal and 7th voicings...
guess that's a beginning step to achieve some of the voicings in the above posts...


this is a great example of where the two worlds meet imo



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