what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (Full Version)

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desaviol -> what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 11:53:35)

What guitar playing Paco de Lucia in plaza de san juan and generally the entire disk.
this guitar is blanca or negra.
the top is cedar or spruce.

the treble strings is like a piano.



El Polaco -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 12:13:53)

He played most of the album on a Faustino Conde blanca (Sobrinos de Domingo Esteso) except for Entre dos Aguas which he played on his new Negra that he had stolen a few years later. (Not the older negra from the late 60's). He typically records on blancas and performs on negras.
The track was added later because the album would have been too short.
The rest is history as they say...



Ricardo -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 12:14:21)

Guess is 60's or 70's era Sobrinos de Esteso Blanca with spruce top and La Bella strings. Not a negra IMO.
(EDIT, agree with Polaco...except I could accept even the rumba on the same blanca. Very different sound to me then on Teatro Real, or Mediterranean Sundance which are some of same falsetas on the negra mentioned and sound different.).



El Polaco -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 12:36:13)

...It almost sounds like they didn't save the mix information on the rest of the album so when the rumba was added, it sounded like the track was from a different album altogether.

It seem that it is pretty much all in the mix - clarity, depth, reverb, ambience presence etc. etc. The same guitar can sound completely different with different mixes.

The Teatro Real concert was a bad pretty bad recording - probably a last minute idea to tape it hence terrible mix and microphones most likely.

Ricardo, did you ever hear the tracks from the 'el duende' album without the reverb mix? Sound like a different guitar doesn't it? I much prefer it - especially punta del faro (the buleria).



desaviol -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 15:31:33)

just listen the first 5 sec of the plaza de san juan.
what kind of wood can give this sound ?



Anders Eliasson -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 23 2012 15:32:27)

As far as I know, it was a Pedro Maldonado cedar top. Also called the "secret guitar" He mentioned it in an interview in canalsur radio not long ago. Its the guitar he has used the most on the recordings from that period. There are no pictures of it as far as I know.



Shawn Brock -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 24 2012 3:38:29)

Great topic!

Anders, is the cedar top you speak of a blanca?

I'm also sitting over hear wondering what the reason is that Paco records mostly on blancas and performs mostly with negras? Sure, you can get some power and low end out of negras that you can't necessarily out of blancas, but that low end also makes them a little harder to mic up live... Seems like a blanca cuts better live (after all that's what they are designed to do), but maybe a negra would record better, (more presents of overtones, some times a bigger sound). I'm always back and forth on the recording end, and which records best... Ricardo? George? Want to speculate on Paco's school of thought?

I love my negra, but am still a blanca man over all... Maybe Paco is also a blanca man at heart...



Anders Eliasson -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 24 2012 6:54:34)

quote:

As far as I know, it was a Pedro Maldonado cedar top. Also called the "secret guitar" He mentioned it in an interview in canalsur radio not long ago. Its the guitar he has used the most on the recordings from that period. There are no pictures of it as far as I know.


It was just a bad joke. [:D][8D][&:][:(][:'(][:o]

I know very little about Paco´s guitars or his shoes.



Ricardo -> RE: what guitar playing in plaza de san juan (May 24 2012 13:21:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

quote:

As far as I know, it was a Pedro Maldonado cedar top. Also called the "secret guitar" He mentioned it in an interview in canalsur radio not long ago. Its the guitar he has used the most on the recordings from that period. There are no pictures of it as far as I know.


It was just a bad joke. [:D][8D][&:][:(][:'(][:o]

I know very little about Paco´s guitars or his shoes.

I figured your were messing with us when I read that on my phone last night. I was gonna quickly counter that I thought it sounded more like a Blackshear Reyes than a Maldonado.

I think when Paco first started recording he was torn between the two sounds, because for accomp. singing it is or WAS always prefered to accomp with Blanca. And the same recording studio probably got used to the sound of those guitars too. I feel Paco's first album FAbulosa was Negra and the second Fantasia is Blanca, by the woody brightness of the first, and the midrangy dryness of the second. IN Rito y Geografia I think EVERY cante performance is accomp. on a blanca except for Morente by Sanlucar on his negra. THe solo playing on negras was only Pepe Martinez, Melchor de Marchena (wonder if that wasn't his son's guitar though) Manolo again, and PDL but only one cut, the zapateado stage shot. All intimate juergas were done with blancas of some sort.

I think Paco got more used to recording with negras later, after Fuente y Caudal, as he was more comfortable with these guitars live too. I read once that he did not like to record with the mic close to sound hole (something you can get away with more on Blancas then negras I feel, and why his early recordings the guitar actually sounds very close up) and that difference shows on later recordings. I am sure the later recordings w camaron he snuck the blanca back in at times, and of course Cositas Buenas he used the blancas to promote the luthiers, but I would say, like many guitar players that love cante accomp and solo playing, he is 50-50 on the issue of prefered sound for recording. No doubt he prefers the one negra live for a LONG time.



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