a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (Full Version)

Foro Flamenco: http://www.foroflamenco.com/
- Discussions: http://www.foroflamenco.com/default.asp?catApp=0
- - General: http://www.foroflamenco.com/in_forum.asp?forumid=13
- - - a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . .: http://www.foroflamenco.com/fb.asp?m=199537



Message

a_arnold -> a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 18:13:36)

An invisible tuner:

From the player's POV:




What the audience sees:




Just make a block of mahogany, taper a hole in it with a peg reamer, and snap on a
planet waves mini headstock tuner. Completely invisible from the front, completely functional from the back.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 18:17:37)

Cool - was this your idea, or did you see that somewhere?

Cheers!



Estevan -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 18:37:55)

Nice one Tony! Certainly the clip-on tuner in the usual position is one of the ugliest most inelegant things around, and unfortunately it seems to have become a kind of fashion statement amongst some of the flamencos in Spain as things do. Great way to spoil the look of a beautiful guitar (along with a big autograph on the front...[;)])
This is a good alternative.



a_arnold -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 19:00:39)

quote:

Cool - was this your idea, or did you see that somewhere?


My idea after several attempts. I hereby give the patent to the foro flamenco.

Other similar (less elegant) solutions:

First I bought the tiny planet waves tuner bcz it is the most inconspicuous, then I played around building a "cejilla" that mounted on the back of the headstock with a tuner mounted on the body of the 'cejilla' (leaving only a black string showing across the front). Worked, and would work on a guitar with machine tuners. But the black string still bothered me, and the "cejilla" added unnecessary weight for someone (like me) who plays with his guitar cocked up in the "traditional" position.

Second attempt, I built an ebony gizmo that clamped on the string of one of my regular cejillas and carried the tuner pressed against the back of the neck, in the area under the "dead" end of the strings so it was always out of the way when playing. I am in the habit of clamping the cejilla above the nut when I'm not using it, so it worked when tuning open strings -- but I couldn't leave it on the guitar when it was in the case because of my case design. Invisible from the front and functional, but inelegant.

Third idea: The mounting bracket/clamp for this tuner could be cut down until the attachment point becomes just a flat plastic disk without a clamp. The disk is large enough to drill holes in and screw mount (or even inlay) it into the back of any headstock. Invisible, functional, even lighter, even more easily removable, but requires minor modification of the back of the headstock.

Any of those 3 solutions would have worked with a guitar having machine heads, but I settled on this solution as the most elegant, and best for me since I have only pegheads.

This is something that all luthiers should give away with their pegheads. It took less than 5 minutes to make. I bet that a clever luthier could design a gizmo that fit on the back of a machine head to give similar purchase to a tuner.



a_arnold -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 19:17:45)

quote:

Great way to spoil the look of a beautiful guitar ... This is a good alternative.


Exactly why I did it.



Ricardo -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 19:48:24)

Cool idea. I have the best idea though....learn to tune by ear![8D]



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 20:06:45)

quote:

Cool idea. I have the best idea though....learn to tune by ear!


So have you got a reference pitch committed to memory (like with people who have perfect pitch)? If not, you can achieve relative but not absolute tuning, right?



Ricardo -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 20:57:28)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Cool idea. I have the best idea though....learn to tune by ear!


So have you got a reference pitch committed to memory (like with people who have perfect pitch)? If not, you can achieve relative but not absolute tuning, right?

Who cares? If you have to play with a harmonica then you tune A NOTE to that. It is not rocket science.

Tons of flamenco guitar is NOT A=440hz yet it's still in tune.



JuanDaBomb -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 21:01:49)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

What the audience sees:






You could also just hide the tuner behind the rat's nest of string!

*only teasing* [:D]

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 21:11:32)

quote:

Who cares? If you have to play with a harmonica then you tune A NOTE to that. It is not rocket science.

Tons of flamenco guitar is NOT A=440hz yet it's still in tune.


Well obviously, but I mean, if you want to make a video for someone to learn from, and you just achieve relative tuning (and not concert pitch), then someone who does not know how to do relative tuning (because they can only work with a tuner) suffers. Correct?



a_arnold -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 21:22:14)

quote:

You could also just hide the tuner behind the rat's nest of string!


Ha! Yeah -- that really looks bad, I know. Sometimes bass strings break at the bridge so I leave them long enough to restring. Those Savarez D strings really don't last.

As for tuning by ear -- even perfect pitch doesn't help those of us who still play gigs in noisy places. Can't tune it if you can't hear it.



Ricardo -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 21:28:07)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rombsix

quote:

Who cares? If you have to play with a harmonica then you tune A NOTE to that. It is not rocket science.

Tons of flamenco guitar is NOT A=440hz yet it's still in tune.


Well obviously, but I mean, if you want to make a video for someone to learn from, and you just achieve relative tuning (and not concert pitch), then someone who does not know how to do relative tuning (because they can only work with a tuner) suffers. Correct?

Your question puzzles me cuz anyone who can't or doesnt' understand relative tuning is lost. Lesson 1, how to tune a guitar. [8|]

Truth is when we play live with several guitars it is troublsome without a tuner cuz everyone thinks their guitar is the right one. And capo AFTER tuning first is problems too. But the point of my joke was for LIVE performance not teaching, having that thing on the headstock is UGLY. My joke was you don't need the thing in reality if you use your ear for a performance. For guitar ensemble we go off just one guy who gives a note....if it is not perfect A 440 it is not important.



XXX -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 22:10:37)

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold
As for tuning by ear -- even perfect pitch doesn't help those of us who still play gigs in noisy places. Can't tune it if you can't hear it.


If you cant hear yourself then the audience probably cant either and it doesnt matter whether your guitar is in tune or not [;)]



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 22:10:59)

quote:

Your question puzzles me cuz anyone who can't or doesnt' understand relative tuning is lost. Lesson 1, how to tune a guitar.

Truth is when we play live with several guitars it is troublsome without a tuner cuz everyone thinks their guitar is the right one. And capo AFTER tuning first is problems too. But the point of my joke was for LIVE performance not teaching, having that thing on the headstock is UGLY. My joke was you don't need the thing in reality if you use your ear for a performance. For guitar ensemble we go off just one guy who gives a note....if it is not perfect A 440 it is not important.


Yeah, I understand hombre. I got the joke and what you mean, but I was referring to why it is still important for some people to have tuners. I've come across many students who are just extremely unable to tell whether a pitch is this one or that one. It is as if they are in a state of being eternally lost, and no matter how much you try to teach them to tune a guitar, they just can't unless a machine does it for them. Clearly, they suffer immensely to learn music, but they just insist on wanting to learn, and I continue trying to teach them because even when I send them messages implying that they should just accept the truth that they are not going to get much better very fast, they persevere and want to keep receiving lessons...

About strings not looking tidy when kept long at the headstock (in case of need for emergency re-stringing), you can do this:

http://www.kentguitarclassics.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/PC140636-500x331.jpg

Looks much tidier in my opinion.

And a note - I find those "vibration sensor" tuners suffer in a noisy environment because the guitar's body picks up ambient vibrations too, so the tuners goes berserk while trying to figure out if the guitar is vibrating due to its own strings, or the surroundings, resulting in a hassle to tune (at least that is my experience with my IntelliTouch tuner).



chapman_g -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 22:41:43)

Ramzi,
I find that particular tuner that a_arnold has on there very sensitive and very accurate. It works much better than the IntelliTouch tuner and some others I have tried.



bursche -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 22:57:17)

quote:

....learn to tune by ear!


yeah guys, just learn to f***** tune by ear. "It is not rocket science."
Get an expensive tuner, lose it, be frustrated and never buy a tuner again.



Mark2 -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 23:07:07)

i phone tuner-your not going to lose your phone hopefully. And it has the time so you'll know when it's time to get on stage. You can call the guys who are late to the gig and tell them to hurry up. And you got the dr compas app. Just make sure you put it on silent before getting up on stage.

But I do like the op's solution too. Tuning by ear is good too. If it's so noisy you can't hear, I wouldn't trust a tuner. I'd leave the room and tune.



chapman_g -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 23:10:06)

And even without the Gizmo it is more discreet than most clip on tuners



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px



a_arnold -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 23:33:36)

quote:

And even without the Gizmo it is more discreet than most clip on tuners


Cool. Another Castillo. What number? When made? Blanca? Negra? New or old bracing? How do you like it?

I notice you use the ej45c d'addarios that Salvador ships on his guitars. How do you feel about the G? Not too brittle sounding?



chapman_g -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 23:36:30)

Even one of your favorites uses a tuner sometimes. And this one might clip on to the peghead and be out of view without a_arnold's gig




a_arnold -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 14 2012 23:41:09)

quote:

I find that particular tuner that a_arnold has on there very sensitive and very accurate.


Plus they are cheap at $15. Mainly because they don't bother to put in a microphone since everyone relies on the vibration mode anyway -- because they use them in noisy environments. Not because they haven't learned to tune a guitar.



tri7/5 -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 0:08:45)

Cool idea. I definitely see how this could be useful in a noisy environment. You can't really tune by ear at all times.



ToddK -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 1:14:46)

I've played thousand of gigs in my lifetime, solo, bands, etc, and have never once used a tuner.



Sr. Martins -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 3:18:45)

Even when tuning with the relative method, I guess it doesnt hurt to make a habit of having at least one of the strings tuned with a tuner or a pitchfork.

In general, the "I never use a tuner" macho talk is a PITA. It's the quickest path to "chorused" live performances/rehearsals. Not to mention that rehearsals would run much smoother if it wasn't for that guy who is out of tune and keeps touching the tuning on all 6 strings and says "I got it I got it, its almost fine"... until someone takes his guitar and a tuner to find that all strings were off and brings em back to pitch in 10 seconds.

I can easily tune a guitar by ear but I cant understand why it makes someone less of a man if he relies on a tuner. Is it gay to have your guitar at 440 (or whatever frequency you and your mates are using)?



Ricardo -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 6:24:21)

No man sorry what is more PITA is the annoying guys that tune fast with a tuner then proceed to play out of tune cuz they have no ear. And then they give a look like "what? I tuned you saw me".
Using one and RELYING on one are two different things.



mezzo -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 6:33:47)

quote:

No man sorry what is more PITA is the annoying guys that tune fast with a tuner then proceed to play out of tune cuz they have no ear.

hey, that's me. definitivly!


quote:

Clearly, they suffer immensely to learn music, but they just insist on wanting to learn, and I continue trying to teach them because even when I send them messages implying that they should just accept the truth that they are not going to get much better very fast

Is that right? Coz I have trouble to tune by ears. Well that's explain at least why I suck in the learning process [&:]



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 6:40:34)

quote:

Is that right? Coz I have trouble to tune by ears. Well that's explain at least why I suck in the learning process


Everyone can learn, but it takes certain people more time than others. If one has a good musical ear, it can help cut a lot of corners, but with perseverance and hard work, one can get to where one wants. I just sounded like a motivational speaker. [8D][:D]



Sr. Martins -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 11:14:55)

I agree thats also bad, especially on instruments that don't intonate well but I prefer an "evened out badness" among the group than one or two stubborn dudes who tune all the strings by ear. Usually the guitar is out of tune by itself and with the other instruments.

I use my ear to fine tune (after using the tuner to bring all strings to base pitch) and to notice and correct when one goes out of tune. If I have a tuner at hand, I'll use it.. I aint homophobic about it :p



at_leo_87 -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 12:28:32)

cool idea, tony!

quote:

but with perseverance and hard work, one can get to where one wants. I just sounded like a motivational speaker.


nice. [:D]

when i first picked up a guitar, it was impossible for me to tune by ear. i had to wait until a friend came around and tuned it for me. so sometimes, i would play out of tune for days. i eventually got a tuner and became dependent on it.

then i met a friend who kept calling me a wimp every time i used my tuner. over time, using a tuner became associated with being wimpy so i stopped using it for good and was basically forced to undergo super basic ear training every time i tuned.

so for me, i just had to stop using the tuner altogether, no matter how tempting it was, in order to learn.

eventually, the same friend would tease me whenever i tuned using unisons or harmonics. nowadays, i've been tuning a lot with just the open strings (4ths or 3rds).

so the lesson is, if you want to improve your ear, put away the tuner, just start tuning, and have a friend call you a little b*tch if he ever catches you using a tuner. [:)]



rombsix -> RE: a simple, elegant and cheap solution . . . (May 15 2012 12:35:27)

quote:

so the lesson is, if you want to improve your ear, put away the tuner, just start tuning, and have a friend call you a little b*tch if he ever catches you using a tuner.


Interesting definition of "friend" you got there. [8D]



Page: [1] 2    >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET