Improvisation in Flamenco? (Full Version)

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silddx -> Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 10 2012 22:03:42)

Does much improvisation go on during flamenco performances? Whether on stage, or in more informal settings.

Thanks.



Doitsujin -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 10 2012 22:08:42)

No flamenco is basically composition based. Only minor things within these compositions are improvised.
Rumba doesnt count.



XXX -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 10:22:04)

I think flamenco is 100% improvisation.



Kevin James Shanahan -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 11:48:28)

Thank you deniz , I wouldn't say 100% given forms etc.. but yeah flamenco has flexibility it breathes .This is the very reason i favor flamenco over classical . As far as I know a hell of a lot of improvisation goes on . I can't go on !



orsonw -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 12:34:59)

My experience reflects the conflicting answers already given.

I work with some dancers and singers who want me to always play exactly the same thing- I mean exactly.
Others where we improvise; the arrangement is fluid, sung lines or footwork may be extended, shortened, repeated, left in, left out, dynamics altered etc. we never do exactly the same thing.

I like flamenco when it's a bit of both, structure but with freedom to change things as the moment inspires.

Often I play things I already know well but when and how they're arranged is improvised. Usually when playing compás I don't know what I will do but I am 'choosing' from a vocabulary of well practiced phrases. i.e. I can enter a compás, get to 3 without yet knowing how I will then get to 10 (or maybe 9, 9.5, 11 or 12 etc. who knows?)

Sometimes I play with another guitarist and then we are really improvising, I mean I make falsetas up as I go along (por bulerias, alegrias, solea, siguiriyas, tangos- not rumba!) You need solid compás for this, I find as long as the rhythm is good it works ok and occasionally something brilliant comes out.



at_leo_87 -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 13:00:33)

well said orson.

basically you know you're going to get from point A to point B. but you're not quite sure how.

i also like when it's a bit of both, improvisation and choreography.



Ricardo -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 13:36:24)

quote:

ORIGINAL: silddx

Does much improvisation go on during flamenco performances? Whether on stage, or in more informal settings.

Thanks.

depends on some specifics. Obviously informal settings will have lots more improvisation in general, but it depends. The confusion is the term "improvisation" is often thought of like in jazz where you have a chord chart and the melodies are invented. With flamenco singing you have exact opposite, the melodies are set, and the structure of the "chart" or chords are improvised underneath. Dance is often choreographed such that the improvisation is again the accompaniment, not the leader. But there are times a set composition can be the base on which improvisation can occur in a similar way jazz improv is done. That's why "it depends".

Ricardo



silddx -> RE: Improvisation in Flamenco? (May 11 2012 16:37:24)

Very interesting answers, thank you.

I was hoping it would be a bit of both, not sure why, probably because I like the security of composition and the freedom to improvise where necessary, but not to the extent of jazz which often seems to me to be music for musicians rather music for audiences.

I'm new to this forum, and a n00b to flamenco really, so you may need to indulge my naive questions until I learn more :) I've played electric and steel string acoustic guitar and electric bass for 30 odd years and play in pro bands, mostly 'world' music and some theatrical prog pop, but since I was young flamenco 'spoke' to me. I love to hear it and had a few tries at learning some but gave up. However, I'm going to start in earnest soon, and hopefully manage to fit some lessons into my busy life. I have some of the techniques to a basic level. I learned from the Juan Martin book which I think is excellent, El Arte Flamenco de la Guitarra.

Sorry, just thought I'd better introduce myself! Looking forward to exploring the forum and stealing all your knowledge and wisdom ;)

Best wishes,
Nigel



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