White spot on french polish? (Full Version)

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elroby -> White spot on french polish? (Apr. 23 2012 18:26:57)

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TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 23 2012 19:18:09)

Sorry, I don't have an answer to your question but what I am very surprised by is the fact that you have a dancing shirt! Your profile pic is all rock and roll and I just can't see you in a dancing shirt brother.[:D]



elroby -> [Deleted] (Apr. 23 2012 20:31:33)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 3:59:46



Shawn Brock -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 23 2012 23:52:03)

I saw this exact topic covered here the other day. I think it was a post from last year as I recall.

Apparently this isn't uncommon to happen... Both EricG and Anders had guitars that this happened to. I haven't experienced this with my SC negra or blanca, although my blanca was already beat to hell when I bought it. It has some discoloration around the tailblock from someone sitting it on a guitar stand and god knows what else. Anyhow, check this link.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=168431&p=3&tmode=1&smode=1



erictjie -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 0:20:29)

i did post about this last year, it seems after awhile it will disappear by itself. don't worry!



Richard Jernigan -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 16:26:48)

It's the effect of water (from perspiration) on the French polish. Your shirt doesn't have to get wet. Just the water vapor from your body will make the shellac turn white.

Left to dry out, the spot will disappear. Repeated events may damage the French polish.

But don't sweat it. [:D] French polish is quite fragile, but it's also easily repaired.

RNJ



LBrandt -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 18:34:07)

I'm thinking of buying a guitar with a french polish. It's a new, factory guitar, not a luthier built guitar. Do you expect that I will have a similar problem with white spots? Does this always happen?



Anders Eliasson -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 18:45:28)

During my 11 years, playing French Polished guitars, I´ve never had a problem like this one.



gbv1158 -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 19:11:00)

quote:

Just the water vapor from your body will make the shellac turn white.

... body perspiration ..kills the French polisch!
....be carefull!
(friends of mine - also classical pro- use little "swiffer" cloths to separate the body from the guitar - expecally the upper part of the right arm.... I do the same)

ciao,
giambattista



TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 24 2012 22:28:27)

What happened to the days when guys used to just play their instruments and not worry about getting them scratched or dinged up? All these things are called "wear & tear" and they are going to and supposed to happen. It gives your guitar character and tells people "look, I am actually played!"



estebanana -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 2:54:05)

Robbie,

Did you put the guitar away wet with perspiration? If so that's what did it. Wipe it down with soft dry cloth after you sweat all over it. The French polished guitars can and will get can wet sweaty, but don't put them in the bag or case until you wipe them down.

The white splotches can be taken out by some careful spiriting off or a bit of judicious French polishing over the effected area. That effect is called "bloom" it is what happens to coffee tables when you leave a wet glass on top and the glass transfers moisture to the table.

Another thing about French polish; we all have different body chemistry. Some of us sweat more salts out, those salts mix with after shave lotion which has alcohol in it and can do damage over time. Some of us are more alkaline and some more acidic.

I built a guitar about ten years ago for a guy who will sweat on the guitar and it will tun the wood and finish greenish. I thought there was something wrong with my French polish job until I consulted another luthier who had also build the same guy a guitar. Both guitars own by this guy and his other string instruments suffered the same greenish problem. We fixed the finishes ad then is happened all over again. I've seen this problem every once in awhile. I think it has to do with body chemistry and so did the other luthier, who is in fact a professional chemist.


Oh and everyone Robi is a great dancer, started as a guitarist, but now he takes both guitar and dance boots to gigs. Double threat performer.

This is chauvinistic to say boys, but don't play her hard and put her away wet. Ever.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 7:40:23)

quote:

What happened to the days when guys used to just play their instruments and not worry about getting them scratched or dinged up? All these things are called "wear & tear" and they are going to and supposed to happen. It gives your guitar character and tells people "look, I am actually played!"


Tom, Those were the happy days before internet.
Those were the days were French polish was something done fast and not so picture perfect as in these "prostitute yourself on the internet guitarbuilder" days. Those were the days when there were many French polishers around, and they didnt mind giving your guitar a fast touch op now and then, covering scratches, sweat marks etc.

Nowadays, a French polished guitar has to look like its been covered in glass (so that you can show it on the internet) Later on they are left to decay because very few know how to do a touch up and if you do it, it has to look picture perfect covered in glass one more time.



gerundino63 -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 11:47:43)

That was before the botox time.....the good old days, when the motto was : " when you want to stay pretty,die young"

[:D]



gbv1158 -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 14:30:02)

quote:


What happened to the days when guys used to just play their instruments and not worry about getting them scratched or dinged up? All these things are called "wear & tear" and they are going to and supposed to happen. It gives your guitar character and tells people "look, I am actually played!"


true! .. often we tend to have a maniacal care of the guitar .... is a mess ..... is to treat them as ornaments! guitars are made to be played first of all... and the care has NOT to be a desease.
:-)
ciao
gimabattista



TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 16:14:22)

Maybe it also has to do with the prices of good handmade guitars today. A scratch on a $3000 dollar guitar hurts more than on a $300 guitar. That first ding or scratch is always the worst and you know it is coming. When it happens it makes you cringe a little but after that, any others that follow are no big deal.



gbv1158 -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 16:30:51)

quote:


Maybe it also has to do with the prices of good handmade guitars today. A scratch on a $3000 dollar guitar hurts more than on a $300 guitar. That first ding or scratch is always the worst and you know it is coming. When it happens it makes you cringe a littl but after that, any others that follow are no big deal.


you're right Tom!, the more the guitar is precious the more we are terrorized by scratches an so on..... the most important is to survive at the first scratch! :-)



elroby -> [Deleted] (Apr. 25 2012 16:39:40)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 5 2012 3:59:22



TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 18:07:23)

quote:

you're right Tom!, the more the guitar is precious the more we are terrorized by scratches an so on..... the most important is to survive at the first scratch! :-)


What's ironic is that we often worry too much about scratches and dings yet as flamenco guitarists, we beat the hell out of our guitars anyway with golpes and hard rasqueos lol



TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 18:08:59)

quote:

but I agree with the Cowboy that too many players worry about small imperfections


[:D]



estebanana -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 20:40:19)

quote:

This is my first FP guitar and I just wanted to know if there would be any structural issues down the road.


There can be. Wipe the moisture off them because it can damage the shellac over time and allow moisture to get to glued seams. It can also, in combination with excessive atmospheric dampness, cause mold to grow inside the guitar.

Many people who lean their cheek on the upper bout can put enough moisture on the guitar to do damage to that area, especially if they use alcohol based shaving lotions. That can be sweated onto the upper bout over time.

I've seen and treated a few guitars with mold inside. It is really easy to disinfect mold, you take very mild dilute bleach solution and apply it to the area on the inside. Then you wash it very carefully with clear water a few times to remove the bleach. But don't do it yourself, take a guitar with a mold problem to a qualified restorer for a consultation. Mold issues are probably the worst case scenario as a result of excessive sweat moisture contact.

All that said, I agree with the makers and players who say don't treat the instrument like an object of obsession for the finish. Guitars get worked over, especially flamenco guitars. There is no place for being brutal to a guitar, but some natural wear and tear is to be expected. And it can be touched up from time to time to keep the layers of shellac from becoming too thin in any one area.

In contrast to the violin world the guitar world is really fetishizing of the finish to the point of being ridiculous. Many 350-400 year old violins have survived because they are touched up periodically. The practice is to not refinish them and try to make them prefect, but to conserve as much original finish as possible. However over the course of 300 years so much finish can wear off the violin that not much original finish is left. This places a high value on violins that have more original finish, they don't however try to make them look new, they just treat them and accept that they will wear.

Treating a guitar like it's a fetishized finish on new sports car is tedious and makes one go crosseyed. Just wiping it down is good and then once in while have the dings filled or touched up. That's healthy care. It's a tool for making music.



TANúñez -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 25 2012 21:27:27)

quote:

Many people who lean their cheek on the upper bout can put enough moisture on the guitar to do damage to that area


True. I jacked up one of my French polished guitars by doing this. My unshaven stubble scratched this area up pretty good so I've stopped playing FP guitars because I hate shaving and will only do it about once a week lol.



estebanana -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 26 2012 3:33:01)

Yeah I did the same thing and kept doing it on my personal guitar. I don't care if it gets beard burn. I tell customers and guitarists about the cheek rubbing thing just so they are aware of the issue. I've seen at least two guitars that have developed mold in that very spot, I bet because of the cheek contact, or because sweat drops naturally land there.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: White spot on french polish? (Apr. 27 2012 8:22:26)

Dont drink strong alcoholic things like vodka or whiskey if play a French Polished guitar. Your breath might damage the finishing.[8D]

I know that good spanish guitars were relatively inexpensive in the US some 30 years ago, but here they were relatively as expensive as they are now. There were very little money in Spain back then. But it was and is still relatively cheap to get them repolished. I think the price now is around 150,-€



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