RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Full Version)

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zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 14 2012 23:59:37)

quote:

Indeed. I asked him once explicitly if Franco was the reason hadn’t returned to Spain. His reply: "No. Apolítico, yo."


Sabicas and most others left because of fear. Luisa Triana who was traveling with Carmen Amaya's company as a child since her father Antonio de Triana was Carmen's dance partner, tells how they fled to France, but even there noticed the street lights were covered with black cloth so as not to be visible from the air, so they continued on to...can't remember if it was Buenos Aires or Mexico.



Ricardo -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 14:46:32)

The main "fear" like many many other flamencos in history, was the fear of flying. The boat ride was a long painful trip as the alternative. ANd speaking of which, isnt the sinking of titanic having an anniversary today?



zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 15:45:49)

quote:

The main "fear" like many many other flamencos in history, was the fear of flying.


The danger from the war was much more worrisome...there was hand-to-hand combat in the streets of many towns and cities, atrocities, arbitrary executions. People who could afford it and weren't political fanatics, left.

To this day many flamencos avoid flying. For this reason, Paquera resisted going to Japan until the end of her life. One of Rocío Molina's young dancers quit the group as soon as it began to be necessary to fly. Singer Domingo Alvarado got the job touring with Carmen Amaya when Porrinas de Badajoz refused to fly with the company. There are lots of similar stories...



Doitsujin -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 15:53:21)

quote:

The main "fear" like many many other flamencos in history


They were just a bunch of douches being afraid of flying. haha Well it was a pretty new technique...they also belived for some time if you go faster than a horse..you would die. And before that they believed in dragons and wizards. pffft..haha



BarkellWH -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 17:30:14)

quote:

That said, Ricardo is nowhere as clean a them and that is why Paco was inspired by Sabicas.


Not to diminish any inspiration Paco may have received from Sabicas, but, in fact, early on Paco was heavily influenced by Nino Ricardo.

Cheers,

Bill



BarkellWH -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 17:37:38)

quote:

The main "fear" like many many other flamencos in history, was the fear of flying.


Sabicas's fear of flying continued during his long sojourn in the U.S. I don't think he ever flew in an airplane while living in the U.S. Unfortunately, fear of flying limited his travel and exposure to many who would have otherwise associated flamenco guitar with Sabicas, rather than with Carlos Montoya, who, of course, flew all over for concert dates.

Cheers,

Bill



Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 15 2012 17:38:58)

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BarkellWH -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 17:42:21)

quote:

I would love to locate a CD featuring Nino Ricardo alone.

There's one in the Chant du Monde series Grandes Figures du Flamenco, volume 11 LDX 274927.


Many thanks, Estevan. Your effort is much appreciated.

Cheers,

Bill



BarkellWH -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 17:49:03)

quote:

Ricardo gave Paco a repertoire, Sabicas gave Paco the desire to forge a new path...quite different gifts (influences) I would say.


No doubt, but perhaps they are equal in their overall influence and impact on Paco's career.

Cheers,

Bill



Ricardo -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 18:41:59)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin

quote:

The main "fear" like many many other flamencos in history


They were just a bunch of douches being afraid of flying. haha Well it was a pretty new technique...they also belived for some time if you go faster than a horse..you would die. And before that they believed in dragons and wizards. pffft..haha

well I know one douche that is scared to listen to zyrab AND luzia!

About Sabias Ricardo Paco connection....first of all I have caught Sabicas grabbing some fasletas from Ricardo....and at the time Paco met Sabicas (based on his first solo guitar short record of 1964) he was already playing circles technique wise around BOTH guys.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Apr. 15 2012 18:46:10)

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zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 18:55:25)

quote:

at the time Paco met Sabicas (based on his first solo guitar short record of 1964) he was already playing circles technique wise around BOTH guys.


When I was studying with Mario Escudero, one day after the class he told me to come to the studio the following evening, there was a guitarist he wanted his friends to see. I asked who, he told me the name, it meant nothing, I told him I didn't feel like coming (I was a youngster, I wanted to spend time with friends), but he insisted in a way that made it clear I was to be there, period.

I got to the studio...about 20 people or so were there, a lot for the small studio. There were no chairs, so we all stood in the cramped space while Paco, sitting in one corner, nearly in the dark (Mario had the walls painted dark blue) played two or three pieces.

Yes...he was absolutely astonishing. None of us had ever heard anyone play with that precision, clarity and flamenconess all so perfectly combined.

There are also well-documented accounts of Paco's meeting with Sabicas in which the old man paled when he heard Paco play, and his own hands trembled when he took the guitar to play for Paco.



zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 18:59:13)

quote:

Nonetheless, he has stated himself in interviews that Sabicas was the one that made him realize the possibilities for uptempo clean playing. Was it just lipservice?


The fact that Paco discovered the possibilities of the guitar from listening to Sabicas, does not preclude his surpassing that level while still an adolescent.



Ricardo -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 19:03:35)

quote:

Come on, names man. Who doesn't like Zyriab and who wouldn't love Luzia???


DOITSIJIN.....need I give his real name?[;)]



Doitsujin -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 19:57:03)

quote:

well I know one douche that is scared to listen to zyrab AND luzia!


LOL touchet!!! Ricardo!!!


quote:

DOITSIJIN.....need I give his real name? [;)]

To romerito: I love these albums. They are within my favs. But, I can´t listen to em.

So,.. I can understand Sabicas...hehe



Paul Magnussen -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 20:20:03)

quote:

at the time Paco met Sabicas (based on his first solo guitar short record of 1964) he was already playing circles technique wise around BOTH guys.


There’s more to technique than just fast runs. There are some fairly nasty mechanical noises on some of Paco’s early albums — the Lorca one for example. You never heard that from Sabas.

I’m not running a competition: I’m just saying that the issue of who has the best technique isn’t as obvious as it may seem at first glance.

To take a classical example: Pepe Romero can apparently play faster than John Williams; but John’s control is far, far better; or so it seems to me, anyway.



zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 20:29:39)

quote:

There’s more to technique than just fast runs. There are some fairly nasty mechanical noises on some of Paco’s early albums — the Lorca one for example. You never heard that from Sabas.


Some of you may remember the fine guitarist Eddie Santiago from New York, later stationed in New Orleans. He was THE Sabicas admirer, he lived, ate, drank and breathed Sabicas, and knew nearly all the material. I remember when Paco appeared, he would regularly come to my house amazed, depressed, surprised, confused at how Paco was...well...better than Sabicas. At first he was measuring their respective picado speeds with a metronome, but that scientific folly soon gave way to his reluctantly acknowledging "the king is dead, long live the king".

(Not related to the Sabicas discussion... Eddie cut off the tips of two fingers on his left hand with a circular saw when he was working at Juan Orozco's guitar shop. The fingers were somehow repaired, and after a very long recuperation period, Eddie was again able to play).



Ricardo -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 20:32:11)

quote:

There’s more to technique than just fast runs.


I know. My meaning of technique was all inclusive. I stand by it when I said "circles".



jg7238 -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 21:00:12)

quote:

Juan Orozco's guitar shop.


Of course, how can I forget good old Juan Orozco. I studied at his shop when it was located on Spring Street many years ago. There was a great Argentinian Flamenco guitar teacher/player there by the name of Jose Maria Moreno. I wonder if he is still performing.



zata -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 21:05:08)

quote:

Flamenco guitar teacher/player there by the name of Jose Maria Moreno.


I knew a guitarist by that name when I was working in Puerto Rico...his wife was a dancer called Chiqui. They'd be seventy-ish now.



jg7238 -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 15 2012 21:31:26)

quote:

I knew a guitarist by that name when I was working in Puerto Rico...his wife was a dancer called Chiqui. They'd be seventy-ish now.


That sounds about right. Thanks for the information zata. [:)]



BarkellWH -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 16 2012 20:37:53)

I just discovered an interesting and odd phenomenon in the liner notes on the cover of one of my old Sabicas vinyl LPs, entitled "The Artistry of Sabicas." It was produced by the recording division of MGM, and it must be dated about 1961 or 1962. It has some very good pieces, all listed as composed by Augustin Castellon. What is interesting and odd is the liner notes read as if Augustin Castellon and Sabicas are two different individuals. Here is a direct quote from the notes: "Sabicas turns Augustin Castellon's compositions into masterpieces of imaginative shading."

I can only think that the MGM PR folks must have thought that to identify Sabicas by his real name would somehow dilute the mystery and "exotic" quality of Sabicas as a "gitano guitarrista." That's just a guess, but why else would they write it up as if the two were separate individuals?

Cheers,

Bill



keith -> RE: SABICAS CENTENNIAL (Apr. 16 2012 21:02:05)

given how sabicas c.d.s have been chopped apart and pieced into c.d.s with new names, but not, the best of sabicas, it does not surprise me that some hack did not know sabicas was augustin castellon. there is a sabicas c.d., flamenco on fire which has 16 selections (or something around that number) which includes 8 pieces and then the same 8 pieces repeated. my guess is sabicas did the first 8 pieces and augustin castellon did the last 8 pieces.



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