Sanlucar 2012 (Full Version)

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Munin -> Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 9:46:40)

So...I guess the annual Sanlucar course is approaching (July 16 - 21) and it might finally the first time for me to make it there. So besides the obligatory question - who else is coming? - I also want to ask, as a first timer:

1) The course selection (http://www.cursoflamenco.com/english/cursos.htm) is a bit overwhelming for me. There is Nunez apparently doing 2 classes (lower intermediate and advanced intermediate), there are 2 accompaniment classes by Antonio Carrion (lower intermediate and intermediate), and there is Tino Van der Sman's repetition class (lower intermediate and intermediate). I am having a really hard time to figure out where I might fit in each and how many classes I should even attempt to do. From what I've read on the Foro just doing Nunez' classes already seems exhausting, so I guess it's overkill to do cante accomp as well?

2) Can anyone comment on the actual difficulty of the classes? For example, in Carmen de Las Cuevas the "basic/intermediate" class was way too basic for me even though I wouldn't consider myself a good player by any stretch of the imaginatinon. I guess it also depends on the other players there. But what kind of material would be taught in the more basic class for example? I am thinking it would maybe suit my skills to do Gerardo's basic class and an accompaniment class, but I just hope "lower intermediate" for Gerardo doesn't mean "spend 30 minutes on super basic SpB compas patterns" which is what happened more than once at Carmen...

3) What kind of material is taught and in what fashion? Complete pieces, or just single falsetas? And are you allowed to videotape or record anything?

Edit: Also who is up for a roomshare? I'm toilet trained and well behaved.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 12:47:12)

I´m not going to Sanlucar and I´ve never been there, so take what I write with a certain distance.
What I know is Andalucia and flamenco in Andalucia, so I would say, dont grade yourself to low.
Second: Why not make a video upload and ask some of those who´s been there.



Munin -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 12:59:48)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I´m not going to Sanlucar and I´ve never been there, so take what I write with a certain distance.
What I know is Andalucia and flamenco in Andalucia, so I would say, dont grade yourself to low.
Second: Why not make a video upload and ask some of those who´s been there.


Is that to mean I shouldn't UNDER or OVERestimate myself? [8|] [:D] At least when I was in Granada 2 years ago I felt like every local kid I came across was a better guitarist than I could ever dream to be.

Anyway this thread was indeed intended to ask people who've been there. I'm guessing that if I take any "advanced" class it will be way above my league, but I feel like it would at least make more sense to work on material that is too challenging than material that is too easy. But since this is Gerardo we are talking about, I assume that "lower intermediate" still means pretty damn challenging.



Ricardo -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 13:52:19)

Haven't been in two years, but I hear the cante accomp class is not to be missed. Tino repetion is good if you are kind of slow at picking up stuff. The top class he mainly teaches his pieces, and one day is spent looking at techinques mainly. The lower class he shows more traditional material and also he goes slower. Most players are somewhere between both classes. I used to take advanced then audit the lower class (just observe with no guitar) but actually learn quite a bit of more useful stuff from the lower class, simply because it is less personal Gerardo stuff, more general and traditional.

The repeat class and cante accomp classes happen during my siesta unfortunately.[;)][:D] The opportunities to observe and play that arrive at night are the real gem of the curso IMO. Getting to see and play with great singers and players is the best way to advance.



Gilles -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 14:37:34)

Went twice so far and hope to go this year as well.

How to assess your skills for the course level? Well, let’s put it this way. If they had said one session is for pros and one session for seasoned amateurs, which would you pick?

I, too, felt that after a couple of courses in Cordoba and Sevilla that maybe, just maybe I could consider myself nivello medio abajo.... Ultimately, I decided to take the abajo course, thinking I could always upgrade if I was too cool for school.

Instead of tapas, I was served humble pie all week! I could recognize fellow first timers by the same shell-shocked gaze that I must have been showing.

Every day, Gerardo whizzes through a couple of different palos: remates, falseta’s, variations on standard positions. You’ll recognize some stuff from his encuentro video and just when you think ‘Hey, I could learn this little gem if he would just show it ten more times at half speed!’, Gerardo will get inspired and show how to build that little gem into a whole piece.

That’s when you realize that many of your fellows have already laid down the guitar and are listening - openmouthed and wide-eyed - to yet another precious miniconcert.

For sure, you need to take the Tino repetition class. He really provides the handholds you need to get the material you’ve just witnessed from Gerardo into your existing framework.

I haven’t attended the Carrion accompaniment classes but I’ve heard great reviews. For me, it is probably too much to take in, although I am starting to enjoy accompaniment more than solo playing.

And yes, bring along recording devices for you won’t remember the first day’s lessons by the time you’ve shaken off your hangover for the second day’s session.

Because the beauty of the Sanlucar course is the nightly programme: every evening there is some organised event at the end of which the bravest beginners can join in with the fin de fiesta. Later on (from 1 am onwards, when the smart students take their rest) a bunch will go to a flamencobar and try their hand amongst the locals.

As far as flamenco experiences go, there is nothing like those nightly sessions.



Munin -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 14:49:30)

Thanks Ricardo and Gilles. I guess this will have convinced me to go for the lower class and take the beginner's accompaniment class as well (if anyone has taken accompaniment I would still love to hear comments)

I'm going to reserve my spot and hope I can actually make it.



veet -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 16:33:35)

I went last year for the first time. Taking Gerardo's course is like trying to get a sip of water from a fire hose. There's a tremendous amount thrown at you in a short time, so tino's repeticion is great. Especially because that one you can video record. Gerardo only allows audio.

You will have an incredible time.

V



Adam -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 16:37:44)

I'm there por seguro!

I haven't done Antonio's course since he started offering it two summers ago due both to time and money. You have to do Gerardo's curso to do either of the other guitar ones (you can go to both intermediate and advanced the first day, then decide where you want to stay). I think Tino's is pretty necessary since he goes over what Gerardo did in detail and with more personal attention (smaller classes), and more importantly he lets you video record him! When reviewing things I learned in the curso I rarely go to the audio recordings of Gerardo, I find Tino's videos much easier to learn from. I think the people who do Antonio's course get the Tino videos from friends.

The "beginner/intermediate" class at Carmen de las Cuevas is a beginners' course, pure and simple. It assumes next to no knowledge of flamenco. I did their "intermediate/advanced" and I'd say the material is at a similar level to Gerardo's intermediate (with some differences, most of the intermediate stuff Gerardo does is pretty playable, while at Carmen de las Cuevas we sometimes learned Cepa Andaluza and lots of other 70s Paco stuff which was above our level [:D]). That said the players in Gerardo's intermediate are on average better, I'd say, than the ones in Carmen's intermediate/advanced, which I think is more important than the actual difficulty of the material you're learning.

But no, at no point will anything in Gerardo's course be as simple as what you're worried about!!

The material is usually falsetas, either traditional Jerez stuff (in the intermediate), his concert stuff (in either), or falsetas he's made up on the spot which still sound ridiculously good.

Highly recommend it, hope you can make it!



Munin -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 20 2012 16:48:28)

Thanks for the comments guys. I just realized the time clash with the accompaniment class and Tino's class as well...that's really crappy, as I really want to take an accomp class. Guess I have to figure that out somehow.



kudo -> [Deleted] (Mar. 20 2012 19:52:18)

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Mar. 20 2012 21:15:17



henrym3483 -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 21 2012 9:41:42)

in 2010 i did gerardo's curso, antonio's curso and tino's repeticion. it was pretty tiring on the hands, and the week after sanlucar, i gave the guitar a rest for a week. pace yourself and listen to your hands.

i think everyone has pretty much covered what goes on in gerardo' class. antonio carrions class was extremely rewarding for me, we got a ton of great traditional falsetas-antonio taught us falsetas from nino ricardo, to sabicas, melchor de marchena, and diego del gastor.

re the cante accomp, it was great to see the ideas broken down really slowly and the progressions explained for each palo. to be frank, i got 2 yrs worth of material to work on from that curso. we covered alot of toque libre and toque a compas, with explanations of regional variations (jerez, utera, sevilla etc)

plus he got us to play a palo (solea) together for a performance art the end of the curso, last years guys did buleria de lebrija. which was amazing to hear.

sadly i wont be there this year but hopefully in 2013.

[;)]



Munin -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 21 2012 9:55:25)

quote:

ORIGINAL: henrym3483

in 2010 i did gerardo's curso, antonio's curso and tino's repeticion. it was pretty tiring on the hands, and the week after sanlucar, i gave the guitar a rest for a week. pace yourself and listen to your hands.

i think everyone has pretty much covered what goes on in gerardo' class. antonio carrions class was extremely rewarding for me, we got a ton of great traditional falsetas-antonio taught us falsetas from nino ricardo, to sabicas, melchor de marchena, and diego del gastor.

re the cante accomp, it was great to see the ideas broken down really slowly and the progressions explained for each palo. to be frank, i got 2 yrs worth of material to work on from that curso. we covered alot of toque libre and toque a compas, with explanations of regional variations (jerez, utera, sevilla etc)

plus he got us to play a palo (solea) together for a performance art the end of the curso, last years guys did buleria de lebrija. which was amazing to hear.

sadly i wont be there this year but hopefully in 2013.

[;)]


Thanks for the comments. How were you able to take all 3!? Were they scheduled differently in previous years or did you take different levels in the Carrion/Nunez classes respectively?



henrym3483 -> RE: Sanlucar 2012 (Mar. 21 2012 22:05:50)

yeah, did it such a way that took gerardo's medio-bajo class, and antonio's curso was directly after tino's repeticion.



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