Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Full Version)

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Shawn Brock -> Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 19:27:32)

List:

Anyone want to help me pick out the wood for the back and sides of my new Castillo negra? Salvador has offered up 2 sets of Palo Escrito to choose from.

He seems to indicate that this 1st set will give a more "powerful sound", while the 2nd set is more attractive. See what you think, and for God's sake lets not get another discussion going on that the wood used for the back and sides makes no difference to the sound. LOL I just don't want my thread to go to war...

Here's the English translation of his message. I will also put the original message in Spanish for those of you who are fluent. The 1st set is not out of the question for me even though its not as visually appealing. I will have some fancy binding and a nice rosette to offset the lack of character in the back and sides. Come on and lay it out...

Salvador, "I send you photos of the Palo Escrito, the first one has the betas but straight (is but hardly and gives but power to the sound). The other is with figure but is not so strong (is very pretty). Your it decides which you want for Your guitar! !!! Greetings! !!!"

Original message in Spanish:
Te envio fotos de las maderas de Palo Escrito, la primera tiene las betas mas rectas (es mas fuerte y da mas potencia al sonido).
La otra es con figura pero no es tan fuerte (es muy bonita).
Tu decide cual quieres para Tu guitarra!!!!
Saludos!!!!



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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 19:29:56)

The 2nd set.



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kudo -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 19:31:28)

the 1st option sounds like my Negra from him, I strongly recommend it



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 20:59:00)

The first one.
Palo escrito tend to be soft, so a a good tight quatersawn grain is better.

Or seen in another perspective:
When you choose a builder, trust him. So what do you want? sound or looks?



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 22:04:15)

Thanks guys. Yes, I'll admit that I'm leaning in the direction of the 1st set, if only because Salvador seemed to show a preference toward building with it.

Anders, thank you sir. Your post is spot on with my thoughts. Don't get me wrong, I love to have pictures and updates during a build, but in the end I want 98 percent of the choices to be in the hands of the luthier. I'm glad that Salvador is thoughtful enough to give me a choice, but I almost wish he hadn't in this case. Hell! After all, I'm blind and the prettiness of the back and sides will be lost on me anyhow. In the end we all want a guitar to be visually attractive, but I can honestly say that I buy instruments on sound, not the looks of the wood grain...

Being that I could see pretty well at one time I still like to have a good description of woods, binding, rosettes and the like, but I don't get to hung up on it like some guys do... I have had my wife describe all of his rosettes and bindings, and picked out what I wanted based on my memories of color and patterns. So other than the binding, rosette, scale length, nut width and over all action, I trust the builder to do what he or she sees to be the best choice at the time. After all, your not just paying someone to build you a guitar, you are paying them for what they know. A builder knows what he can get out of each component and can imagine how the guitar should sound in the end. I'm not a builder and can't do that, therefore, I'll pay someone who does know...

By the way, if anyone cares, I'm going ahead with the 660 MM scale. I have been one of the people on here who has upheld the 650, but I'm going to move on up with this one.

Specks:
660 MM scale, 52 MM nut, ebony pegs (he don't have any Planetary pegs), Palo Escrito back and sides, cedar neck with graphite reinforcement, European spruce top, a reddish/ pinkish rosette with roses and green vines, and binding which will match the rosette. I'm debating on a 6 or 12 hole tie block and am open to thoughts. My Castillo blanca has a 6 hole tie block and its working fine, but people seem to love the 12 hole tie blocks...

Choices, choices, choices...



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 22:17:05)

I am amazed (well, not really anymore) that Salvador thinks he can predict the sound based on the grain. I would choose the quarter sawn because it will be more stable--less apt to warp and crack down the road.



estebanana -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 22:52:04)

Are you really blind Shawn, or are you saying that as figure of speech meaning you are overwhelmed by choices? Not to be blunt or rude, but I would rather just ask.

660 is fine, you can get used to it with a cejilla.

If I were blind I would not care what the wood looked like, or whether it was flat grain or quarter sawn. Good flat sawn wood can make a fine back if the wood promises to be stable. Some luthiers get a feel for wood that will stay true even if it's flat and some woods lend themselves to having more flat grain in the mix of grain direction. Lot's of backs & sides have a mixture of flat and quarter sawn wood as the back can be taken from a section of the flitch that might extend into flat grain. It's pretty common. People are more picky about it today because they have too much information via the internet and they hyper project about all the choices.



if I were blind, I would ask the builder to close his eyes when he scrapes the bindings and make them feel good. Extra rounded over and comfortable. But of course you did not ask for that opinion. [8D] Ask him for his Georgia on my Mind Model. [:D]



Sean -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 11 2012 22:54:09)

The first set isn't all that plain looking and will be pretty nice under finish. Salvador probably suggested number one not based on looks or grain pattern, it is probably simply just a better piece of wood, stiffness, hardness, more stable with a better ring to it. I'd take his advice



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 1:29:00)

Well... I have made the call and am going with the first set for back and sides. Thanks to all of you for weighing in on this. I favored the first set, but wanted to hear the thoughts of others before deciding...

@ Stephen, No sir, no joke... I'm almost as blind as a bat and am pretty happy about it as strange as that may seem... I have found that most things you don't see really aren't worth seeing, well, that's the case at times any how... Say, wouldn't a Georgia On My Mind Model be more like a steal string jumbo? LOL Oh, and don't ever be afraid to just come out and ask with me Man. I'm a "from the hip" kind of guy and never seen a reason to dance around a question.

@ Ethan, I think something may have been lost in the translation but I'm not sure. A friend who speaks Spanish called Salvador for me today. And the friend seemed to think that Salvador was saying that he thought the first set was stiffer, hints that's why he recommended it. I don't know if he can predict the sound of a guitar or not. In fact I don't know that anyone can do that and be correct all or even most of the time. It seems that most of you luthiers have some idea of what a guitar will sound like long before its done though. Lots of people order guitars and ask for some direction to be taken when developing the tone, they may want a little brighter or darker sound, and usually the builder is able to get the job done. At least that is what I have witnessed with a lot of luthier guitars. The abilities for a good maker to handle these requests are the reason lots of us order custom instruments. Salvador has never disappointed me and I don't think he will this time. That's the thing I love about you guys, your all great builders but each have drastically different ways of going about things... As Sean just said, perhaps the first set has a better ring to it, this seems like it would contribute to Salvador's recommendation... After all both backs are at a point where he can tell a little something about the tap tone I would think.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 2:39:37)

Good points about the stiffness and tap tones. I was thinking more generally.
Good luck with the guitar! Let us know how it turns out.



constructordeguitarras -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 2:40:54)

Good points about the stiffness and taptone. I was thinking more generally.
Good luck with the guitar! Let us know how it turns out.



JuanDaBomb -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 4:06:29)

Shawn: I was wondering, did you decide to go with Palo Escrito based on Castillo's recommendation, or did you already know you wanted to go with this species of wood? Just wondering about the decision process, that's all. My vote is for #1 as well. [:)]



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 17:50:56)

Hey Juan,

The answer is yes and yes. I was leaning in the direction of Palo Escrito in the first place but was open to Salvador's recommendations. It seems that most of his Palo Escrito negras I have played were a little brighter and raspier over all. The first thing I did was ask him what back and sides made the brightest negra with the most volume. Over all he recommended Palo Escrito or Granadillo. He seemed to think that his negras made of Palo Escrito didn't take a back seat to any other woods he offers... So being that I didn't want to get a negra which was overly sweet, Palo Escrito is so pretty and light weight and its cheaper over all in the end, that's what I went with. I was prepared to go with a higher priced wood if Salvador thought it would make much difference, but he didn't.



erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Feb. 12 2012 23:51:13)

Salvador Castillo makes beautiful guitars . Last year i order 3 guitars , 1 blanca with mexican cypress , 1 classical cedar top with BRZ rosewood and negra spruce top with BRZ rosewood. they sound even better now after few months.
He prefers BRZ rosewood among other wood actually.



Guest -> [Deleted] (Feb. 13 2012 1:26:09)

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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 1 2012 18:51:31)

Construction on my negra seems to be coming along nicely... Here are some more photos... I should have the guitar by the 1st of April!



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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 1 2012 18:55:51)

Tapa.



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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 1 2012 18:58:36)

Inside



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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 1 2012 19:01:33)

Sides



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erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 2 2012 8:51:01)

Shawn,
Did you order 2 guitars?



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 2 2012 18:17:10)

Hey erictjie, no I just ordered one guitar. It somewhat looks like Salvador is building a 2nd guitar out of the set of wood that I didn't choose. I haven't asked him about the 2nd guitar in the photos, but it looks like a cedar top negra. I don't know who he is building that one for, or if he's just building it and will find a buyer later. From what he has told me, he is always building 2/3 guitars at a time. With doing that he don't have as much down time while waiting for glue to set up and the like. Do you have a date for when your new negra will be finished yet? I bet it will be great! How about giving us some specks? Here's my latest photo.



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erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 2 2012 20:15:04)

Hi Shawn,
he told me 20th april. mine is 660mm scale with mechanical tuner.
iam still waiting from him to show me some paracho made rossette, i don't want russian made rossette anymore.



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 2 2012 20:42:43)

Hi, Maybe I was wrong, but I thought all Salvador used was Paracho made rosettes? I had the understanding that a few people in Paracho made rosettes and most of the luthiers there bought them from local makers. Like I said, I may be wrong about that, I'm just going on what I was told some time ago. I do know that a lot of the makers from Paracho seem to use a lot of the same rosettes. I wanted a rosette that Salvador had on his web site, and he told me that he no longer had any of them and he showed me a bunch that he had on hand. I was going to pick out a new rosette and he emailed me and told me that he had found the original rosette that I wanted and bought it from another luthier there in Paracho. I tell you, there is a lot of mystery around how things are done in Paracho. There's no place quite like it...



erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 2 2012 20:52:51)

those rossettes that Salvador show us are russian made mostly, thats why this time i want authentic paracho made rossette. it is pity Salvador don't make his own rossette. I think he is too busy for that.
Could you show us your rossette please.



beno -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 3 2012 17:34:59)

quote:

he showed me a bunch that he had on hand


Could You show that photo? I'm curious [:)]

The rosettes Salvador has built with most of the times in the past couple of years were avaible at dukeluthier as well...



Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 4 2012 19:47:07)

My rosette is the one in the center of this photo. I'm trying to find the photos of some of the ones Salvador has now, can't recall where I put them...



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erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 4 2012 20:36:20)

these are paracho made rosette from Salvador. i think i don't like them



erictjie -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 4 2012 20:41:06)

i ask Salvador to get me this or otherwise i will buy from duke and sent it to him





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Shawn Brock -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 4 2012 22:10:48)

Here's the photo of the other rosettes he offered me. If he wasn't able to get the one I wanted, I was going to go for the rosette which is on the top left in this photo. Sorry if this was already posted...



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Sean -> RE: Help picking out back and sides for a new negra? (Mar. 5 2012 6:07:41)

Russian's are much higher quality then thinner faded colour Dukes



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