BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 ***Voting***

BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 ***Voting*** (Full Version)

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[Poll]

BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 ***Voting***

Fibonacci

54% (17)

Euler

41% (13)

al-Khowârizmi

3% (1)

Total Votes : 31

(last vote on : Nov. 17 2011 15:22:03)

Message

kozz -> BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 25 2011 16:13:04)
Hereby the voting page for the BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 Entries can be listened here: http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=181187&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 The final entries are: - Fibonacci --- Andy Culpepper - Euler --- Richard Kozma - al-Khowârizmi --- JieXian Open for comments now.

ArtZumer -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 7:19:07)
For me the first one because of the way it holds toghether very well has a lot of groove and swing to it. I also like the space of the second but andy culpepper got da groove down.

JieXian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 7:41:32)
hahaha I do not belong here among Andy and Richard hahaha. Great job. Loved Richard Kozma's one the most. Was expecting more entries though ... Anyone please feel free to give me some critiques, doesn't matter if it's "harsh".

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 10:01:57)
hats off to you JieXian, you're the real winner here i think...

rombsix -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 15:58:15)
Kudos to JieXian for the effort. Andy and Richard are more advanced players, but I particularly enjoy it when people push themselves to further limits, and that is what JieXian did here. Regarding Andy versus Richard - both entries were good. I have to say I am not the expert on aire because I keep getting comments that my playing is robotic and cold. You two did a great job with getting your buleria compas to swing. I have to say though that I find it somewhat hard to compare both due to the different loops and tempos each one employed. I am sure many will say that aire has nothing to do with the loop or tempo, but at my level, I don't feel very secure saying that one had an edge over the other. I felt like at some points, each recording had something the other didn't, but altogether, I couldn't determine one to be worth my vote more than the other. I am sure that the maestros like Ricardo and Todd will do a much finer job than me in judging one performance to be "better" than the other, but I will just have to remain neutral on this one. Cheers!

turnermoran -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 17:29:43)
These are all great. If I were to comment, I would say that in my humble opinion, rhythmic tightness and accuracy are more important that aire and duende and all. Or at least they come first. I'm sure that's heresy but I'm not talking about the finer points of pushing the tempo or being intentional with rhythm. I'm talking about playing with no stumbles whatsoever. I think Richard's execution was rhythmically the tightest. Some of Andy's thumb work lacked a hair of the rhythmic urgency he had when playing straight compas with rasgueado. I think JieXian's had a few more of these areas than Andy. I think the hardest part of playing flamenco is try transmit all the aire and feeling, with all the techniques - and the constant switching of hand positions needed to play picado, rasgueado, pulgar, alzapua, etc - and never have any sounds of hesitation or hiccups when switching. I think Richard did the best with this, but I think Andy's entry had a great balance of compositional elements. I loved the way he tied together the chords and the thumb work and all. (btw: I'm totally gonna transcribe and steal some of those tasty lines Andy!). Congrats and great job to you all.

El Kiko -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 19:53:13)
I did some listening and judging as best I could the other day, but was waiting to see if there were any more entries , I feel I should have entered after all , but listening is another way of learning and there was a lot of stuff here to like ... this was what i wrote after the first few times I heard them the other day ... Fibonacci Great Flamenco sound could be a little more definate in places , have faith in yourself , a few more dynamics to make the dramatic parts hit their mark, nicley put together. You are a good player, and has some nice chords Euler Nice punchy Rasguerdo , A bit loose in places but got into the groove well later, Definatley fulfilled the requirements of the challenge, I think this was definatley has your personality in it . al-Khowârizmi This was, I felt a bit "muddy' at times I was waiting for it to pick up but I didnt , short and to the point , I think you should do more recordings to help you hear if you get what you want.lots of promise here. I think that all though there were only 3 entries that they all did very well and I'm sure that just get it sorted out in your head for recording made you all learn something ..really well done and thanks to all 3 of you ...

Andy Culpepper -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 19:53:44)
Hmm.. I guess I won? Personally I would have voted for Richard. I didn't have time to do more than one take and I'm out of practice right now, so I totally failed some riffs that I can usually nail (like the thumb parts Brian mentioned). Richard was more solid IMO. But thanks everyone, it was fun. I wish more people had entered!! I seriously think a lot of players, even advanced players, are scared of having their straight compas judged. But often in juergas you need to just bang out compas for hours on end so it's a skill all of us could work on!

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 20:34:20)
first of all, congratulations Andy, you're a fine player! i have to tell i'm very disappointed at the turnout in this competition, i can't believe only one person actually took his time to prepare and record for this...of course Andy and myself, we took maybe 20 minutes with this challenge because it's material we already play and improvise...but this could've been very useful to all less experienced players... Florian and Kozz, while i really appreciate the thought, i'm sorry to say the organization wasn't on its top either, i think this voting system is bad, anyone can vote anonymously, if we can give our names, i think it's only fair that the judges give their names and their opinions too, if they don't go into technical details, it doesn't matter...more mistakes, putting the entries online hours before deadline, and especially revealing our names right after deadline had passed...so of course the voting couldn't remain totally objective...we've had something very similar before, the composing challenge was a complete failure despite Giacomo's efforts... i really liked our normal, well tried out system, it was well thought out, and the top players of the foro didn't mind giving their opinions... on the matter of the compás loop which Gimar Yestra mentioned, i chose a different loop for these reasons: 1. when this idea came a while ago and someone asked, Florian didn't have a problem with anyone using another loop...since i only decided yesterday morning that i would record something, i didn't really care to read through all the posts to make sure, my apologies; 2. i don't like the loop uploaded; 3. they weren't quick enough for my taste; 4. you can barely even hear it, does it make such a difference for you? i would understand if you actually took the effort to participate yourself; 5. i don't give a **** - we've had many competitions before and compás loops weren't an issue...there were always a couple uploaded to help those that didn't have any...i think this shouldn't be an issue in the future either, it makes no sense... incidentally - and i'm not the only one with this -, i have the sad feeling that the foro is just not what it used to be, there's less "action", interesting discussions, uploading stuff, etc...i hope this changes back to the better...

Gimar Yestra -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 21:36:47)
@ xirdneH_imiJ you seem to take my comment a way too hard. I was under the impression that the idea of this challenge was for everyone to use the same loop, to make comparisons easier between each entry and maybe also to make judging each entry a bit easier. Im pretty sure this was mentioned in the first post, then again that was my understanding, maybe I got it wrong, things got a bit unclear at some points. I actually didn't participate because I could not get a feel for this loop at all, I realy did try, but didnt think my messing around would contribute to the challenge at all. If i had known sooner all loops were accepted I would have made an entry. I thinkyou do give a **** other wise you wouldn't mention, just know I didnt mean to be judgemental or rude or anything. Congrats Andy, I realy like what you did with this loop, mainly cuz I dont understand it at all, it throws me off all the time, so I can use your entry to help understand this type of loop better.

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 21:49:08)
my point exactly, you didn't get the feel of the loop, which means you were forced out of competition because of something that doesn't make sense...it would've been so much nicer for more people to join...(btw i still would like to hear you, just use whatever loop you want) your comment made me give my opinion about this issue, so i thank you for that, otherwise i probably wouldn't have bothered...but i think it's important... it's an experience for future organizers of challenges, the first post has to be dead clear about everything, to the slightest of details...

Andy Culpepper -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 22:20:33)
quote: it's an experience for future organizers of challenges, the first post has to be dead clear about everything, to the slightest of details... Yep. I wish you had entered, Gimar... I definitely think we should have just used any loop. I didn't like this loop either. I was hoping Florian would have done something cool with it because it's perfect for his light, modern, spacey style of playing. For me I need something more solid because otherwise my playing just overpowers the loop and I can't feel the accents as well. Another thing I wasn't sure about was if it was OK to add any effects, I added a touch or reverb...

Gimar Yestra -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 26 2011 22:44:59)
I realy wanted to enter, the idea of entering a challenge was quite exiting for me, specially since I'm a beginner. I actually think florian's idea of mini challenges was realy good, specially for beginners like me, hope we get more of those.

kudo -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 2:06:27)
OH ****!!! I was extremely busy these days with the flamenco festival and the spanish guest artists that I completely forgot about recording for the challenge. I am more than ready to enter this challenge but its too late, however, I expect to record by monday, the festival is over on sunday. I dont know if late entriees will be accepted ?? personally I like what Andy did the most , but I thought that he might have broked the rules of this challenge by putting bits of falsetas here and there (i mean, they are not JUST chords as its supposed to be)

KMMI77 -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 5:59:51)
quote: i have the sad feeling that the foro is just not what it used to be, there's less "action", interesting discussions, uploading stuff, etc...i hope this changes back to the better... I agree. I think there is so much flamenco and discussion available now that everyone is already overloaded. I was going to participate in this but then i thought. What's the point? The level of interest is evident. But thanks to the people who did bother to upload. I enjoyed hearing you play.

JieXian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 7:05:36)
After hearing about the challenge I looped the same Baile Bulerias track and another Tomatito cante one many many times to get an idea how to compose one. Rico_Kiko you're right but I still need to learn how to make it pick up >_>. Before this I couldn't even play in compas for 30 seconds. Honestly, listening to the 2 other recordings made me smile hahaha what came to mind was "so classy!". Gimar, I think no one else could imagine that choosing compas loops should ever be a problem... hence their reaction. I only practiced and got everything together 2 days before the dateline but I'd appreciate any comments to help me improve, here's my video: Thanks to whoever gave me the pity vote hahaha. but KMMI77, there's always a point in uploading an entry :( Just like a mini jam over the internet. It's has always been very interesting listening what others can do, like the other challenges in the past. Especially for me to hear more advanced players.

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 9:16:23)
here are all my takes, they all differ slightly...the 2nd clip is the one i sent in...

XXX -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 9:23:41)
Congrats to all. It is always rewarding to upload something. I wanted to enter so much but i somehow lost interest in it. The long deadline was also not helpful to keep the motivation up. The last two weeks i had the guitar exactly 2 times in my hand. That says it all about my practice time at the moment. I really dont know what nobody says it but the compas in the third take is all over the place. It needs really alot more practice to it. Sorry but it is just NOT helpful to not mention that.

JieXian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 10:11:27)
The third take as in mine? I have a few delayed strokes at the third beat... Nothing wrong at all pointing that out. That's what I need. Any particular part I need to look out for or is it out overall?

Gimar Yestra -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 13:35:47)
JieXian, it seems you try to play something on every beat, you fill up everything. I think if you try to play less you can accent the beats a bit easier, making it easier to listen to aswell. This sounds odd coming from my mouth, because I do the same thing lol. it something I've been trying to work on.

Florian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 14:50:29)
Brilliant guys, thank you for taking part, i wanted to join you but my soundcard had problems didnt have sound for weeks this was a tough one...for me on the one hand Andy held the compas nice and strong and had nice swing and played it safe on the other Richard had moments of brilliance at times going to really nice places and getting close...at times less consistant in compas than Andy ...but still i loved the fact that he dared to play it unsafe... its a tough one common sense for me says give it to Andy but the litlle kid in me who likes where Richard attempted to go gave it to him...to encourage the courage to think for yourself.....even thow Andy's felt alot more secure with the compas and it was familliar buleria compas phrases and remates.,. but this is just today...tomarow i might see it different...my point take everyones opinions with a pinch of salt..its just that, i liked both very much...this part is very unimportant JieXian Like someone above said...you probably learned the most and got the most out of this challenge...so their statement about you being the real winner is absoluteley correct. SO now the truth [:D]....did you guys vote for yourselfs ?[:D][:D]

Florian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 14:59:04)
quote: Florian and Kozz, while i really appreciate the thought, i'm sorry to say the organization wasn't on its top either, i think this voting system is bad, anyone can vote anonymously, if we can give our names, i think it's only fair that the judges give their names and their opinions too, if they don't go into technical details, it doesn't matter... well i am sorry amigo...I asked ...nobody voluntered to judge (correction!.. 1 person) and i had things to do this month i wasent here very much, i didnt have time to chase people ...what would you have done ? also if you hated this voting system you should have spoken out when i was testing it...i cant read your mind...i put it up and asked...does this work ?...a couple of people said they liked it...there was nothing to indicate u didnt like it...so i used it.. how about you stop complaining about the organization like spoilt little kids, i am not the daddy, i gave an idea and tried to get you started, noone else offered so it was me or noone else.. [:)]...it is what it is...find an obsticle ...go around it, adapt... quote: appreciate the thought, i'm sorry to say the organization wasn't on its top either, i think this voting system is bad, anyone can vote anonymously like it or not is acctualy more reflecting of real life than any other "fair" system we had...who says that the listener that likes someone else more has to explain to you why ? and how often does that happen in real life ? anyone CAN vote...once...if enough anyones use their one vote to vote for the same guy...then hes doing something right

rogeliocan -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 15:02:19)
JieXian, I'm just an intermediate player so you can verify this with your teacher or a pro. But I notice you hold your guitar like an electric guitar; you hold it very low. Your left elbow is above the neck of the guitar. This means you have to bend your wrist a lot more to make chords and I can't imagine you doing barré chords in this position. Also, your thumb sticks out and moves a lot; eventually you want that little guy to stay behind so you reduce your hand movements allowing you to change chords faster. Again, a habit from narrow electric and accoustic necks.

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 15:04:27)
can't add more, what previously existed was good, they messaged people if they were willing to judge, the guidelines were clear, and generally the highlight of the challenge itself was easier to grasp...i know that's not your fault, but saying play a minute or two of basic bulerías is not acceptable for lower level players, their hands need to be held, a tab, an example of music, whatever...you can't say "just play" because they need to be more experienced...or they need to work on it, which we've now seen that they won't... next time you organize i'll help :) edit: damn edits :D Flo please don't feel bad about it, it's nothing personal of course... edit 2: since you've edited your post more than once, it makes mine look pointless...even if you're defensive, i say if it ain't broke don't fix it...and it's not a political simulator to have to reflect real life...this IS real life and we have an opportunity to make things fair which is what sadly is missing in other aspects of real life...

Florian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 15:16:54)
quote: I was going to participate in this but then i thought. What's the point? The level of interest is evident. [:D] dont be the smoke around the flame amigo , be the flame [;)]

El Kiko -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 27 2011 17:45:10)
The thing I got from posts leading up to this challenge was that , people were saying ....\ "great we dont want this annonymous system", and comments like .... quote: Put a pussy beside the name of everyone who is dropping out before deadline,....... we just upload our own videos not worrying about anonymity.......and it saves alot of fing around ......I agree, ....I dont like secret / anonymous sht either ....But then leave out the "points" and judging....I am for video uploads. Or you can allow audio only first, and after the challenge is finished all videos need to be posted. etc etc ....and then after all that, people didnt enter and the whole thing became a bit laborious , I did my best to judge , I really did , , but I actually dropped out because of the confusion and that it seemed that the rules were changing all the time to cater for everyones requests, and then in the end it was said , "why didnt we use the system we had before ..." [:@] I think the system we had before was good , and it worked for that reason , and if you do a challenge it should be done like that , you dont have to enter , and you still have the right to complain ,,, I'm not getting at anyone really I'm not , and thanks to Florian for trying to get something good together , at least we learned something... Finally I would like to say thanks to Kozz , who really helped and should not be forgotten ............

JieXian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 28 2011 9:32:24)
Thanks for the comments and suggestions. About my posture, actually I have a classical background and I don't play much electric or acoustic guitar. It's just that I've been trying to find a comfortable posture and currently this works. The downside of Richard's posture (which would otherwise be quite comfortable) for me is that I can't move my right towards the neck or towards the bridge when I want a different sound since I need my elbow to lock the guitar stably in place. However, now that I think about it I don't need to move around too much while playing flamenco, unlike some of my songs (link is at my sig if you're interested, first song). So I'll try it out and see how it works out. For now the most comfortable position is while standing up and resting my guitar on a back rest of a chair (waiting to buy a new guitar and modify it to allow me to use a strap), which..... looks really weird haha. An alternate confortable posture would be with a footstool but I don't want to be relying on a footstool or needing to carry it everywhere. Gilmar thanks for the tip I really liked how their ones were more spacey and classy and I'll need to learn more before I can play like that. I wasn't exactly sure what rico-kiko meant by muddy but you've pointed out the details. How about an Alegrias one next? :D btw I voted for Richard

xirdneH_imiJ -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 28 2011 10:39:01)
i used a foot stool, due to increasing back (and knee) problems, the usual story, i've been forced to change my ways :) it really doesn't matter how you sit as long as your tone is fine...keep searching!

El Kiko -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 28 2011 18:55:11)
quote: I wasn't exactly sure what rico-kiko meant by muddy Meaning when you playing rasguerdos to try to get them a bit cleaner or more definate , especially if there are a lot of low notes in the chord , this is where some guitars have what is called a "Growl" although the type of guitar can help I really think it is the player , So you can hear the beats of the rasguerardo and a good stop if needed . like a clean sound instead of " muddy " ... [;)]

JieXian -> RE: BULERIAS COMPAS Challenge 2011 *Voting* (Oct. 29 2011 5:46:03)
ah ok thanks for the elaboration. I'm always trying to find the perfect posture.

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