Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Full Version)

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Pgh_flamenco -> Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 21 2011 23:26:29)

A few federal agencies have made new policy statements about illegal wood. There will most likely be new laws, too. Looks like luthiers and guitar owners won't be prosecuted for owning guitars made from illegally imported woods.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/feds-target-unwitting-owners-illegal-wood-14576421



ralexander -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 22 2011 12:43:02)

Sounds like progress, but this topic seems more confusing by the day - so they won't prosecute, but what about seizures? Will APHIS/Lacey Act documents still be required for personal cross-border shipments, and how will they determine if someone "unknowingly possesses" an instrument made from illegally imported materials?



estebanana -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 24 2011 20:00:39)

That article is full of partisan malarky. And the media has no idea what the actual situation is. Misinformation.

The shipments to Gibson were not falsely labeled. Republicans are not the sole party seeking fair treatment of musicians and collectors and the Obama admin. has nothing to do with this issue.

The organization bringing the situation to the attention of the government is NAMM. North American Music Merchants. ABC needs to learns it's ABC's.



Pgh_flamenco -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 24 2011 23:41:19)

quote:

...how will they determine if someone "unknowingly possesses" an instrument made from illegally imported materials?


Your guess is as good as mine. This will probably be unenforceable except in a few rare instances.

quote:

Republicans are not the sole party seeking fair treatment of musicians and collectors and the Obama admin. has nothing to do with this issue.


FYI--decisions regarding enforcement and policy statements made by federal agencies are NOT independent of the current administration. Like it or not the Obama administration is responsible for this and it is doubtful these agencies would have clarified their policy without the support of Republicans.



estebanana -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 25 2011 0:56:07)

The media did not do their home work when they wrote that article. It's not a partisan issue as much as you seem to want to make it one.

The Lacey Act is still very much in effect, regardless of what a few republicans claim. ABC did bad reporting on this issue and we are NOT out of the clear yet.



estebanana -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 25 2011 1:23:41)

Here's another article that explains more about the complexity of the Lacey Act vis a vis world trade and the domestic (US) economy.

http://thinkprogress.org/alyssa/2011/09/20/323623/does-conservative-obsession-with-gibson-guitars-ignore-small-businesses-real-needs/

Conservatives see Gibson CEO as a tool. He was in the right place at the right time for them to use him they way they wanted. The Lacey Act and it's implications are far more complex than a simple Conservatives are correct/ Liberals are wrong polemic.

As for specifics of the Gibson raid, the labeling on the shipments was not falsified. There have been long discussions on the guitar maker websites about the details of the shipments and importation process. The people who were involved in importing the wood have given information in those discussions that ABC news does not know about because they did poor or at best very shallow research.


There are music industry lawyers and advocates who have been working out of the media spot light to help resolve these problems and they are the ones who will make the exact clarifications needed to serve this industry and keep the vital parts of the Lacey Act clarified for lawmakers as those rules effect trade, fairness and enforcement. As soon as another photo op comes along, the republicans who have seized on the Gibson CEO as a poster boy will go find some other person to prop up for their needs. Meanwhile the same lawyers and advocates of the music industry will be working out of the spot light.

The main problem with viewing of the Gibson raid through the lens of conservatives as the hero is that it goes a false reading on what is really happening and does not give credit to those who have been trying to raise awareness by directly advocating for all music industry instrument producers.



estebanana -> RE: Feds Won't Target Unwitting Owners of Illegal Wood (Sep. 25 2011 1:44:32)

from this guys blog, ( his writing style is grandiose, but his conclusions are intersting):
http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/archives/2011/09/12/schooling-ron-ramsey-or-blame-marsha-blackburn-for-the-raid-on-gibson

"Nearly a century later, in 2008, the protections under Lacey's act were expanded to include plants imported from foreign countries, and used U.S. law as a buttress to the forestry codes of other nations. Even Rep. Marsha Blackburn, who recently flaunted Juszkiewicz like a flag pin on her lapel, voted to override Bush's veto of the Food, Conservation and Energy Act of 2008, aka the 2008 U.S. Farm Bill, which includes an amendment expanding the powers of federal government to enforce the Lacey Act — the very thing that made the Gibson raid possible."

Obama took office on Jan. 20th 2009.

The Lacey Act was last amended during Bush's final term on Dec. 15th 2008.


From the USDA website:

"The Lacey Act combats trafficking in “illegal” wildlife, fish, and plants. The 2008 Farm Bill (the Food, Conservation, and Energy Act of 2008), effective May 22, 2008, amended the Lacey Act by expanding its protection to a broader range of plants and plant products. The Lacey Act now, among other things, makes it unlawful, beginning December 15, 2008, to import certain plants and plant products without an import declaration. This page will serve as a clearinghouse for all information related to the implementation of the Lacey Act declaration requirement and will be updated promptly as new information becomes available."


The revisions to Lacey Act were conceived of and completed during the Bush administration. Republicans were not crying foul then because the Lacey Act by way of limiting and culling illegal wood imports, in turn enhanced the potential for profits of domestic wood suppliers by creating greater demand of non imported products. The difficulty in fairly enforcing the Lacey Act is in determining where the limits of retroactive accountability and quantity of goods is concerned. Those issues are not partisan issues and those are the parts of the interpretation of the law which concern the small craftsman/artisan instrument makers, the instrument collector and musicians. Those problems have not been resolved yet with any degree of certainly or assurance that we should become complacent.



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